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Infant euthanasia
Posted by Raven on December 11th, 2005
Holland has allowed adult euthanasia for several years now. Recently they have also began doing this to babies.
AMSTERDAM, Dec. 4, 2005 — – Anita and Frank go often to the burial place of their daughter Chanou, who spent her entire life — six months — in the Groningen University Hospital suffering from a terminal digestive disorder.
Chanou died when, with her parents’ consent, doctors gave her a lethal dose of morphine.
“I gave her life,” her mother said through a translator, “but I didn’t give her life to live it unbearably.”
There isn’t any detail here…without knowing the actual DX, I cannot comment on whether this was truly needed.
There are not too many digestive disorders that are terminal, and those that are rarely effect children. I have a deep distrust of these foreign nations and what they consider to be terminal illness…
Several years ago, Holland became the first country to legalize the mercy killings of adults. Now, this European nation, known for its liberal ways, has announced that in “certain circumstances” it will also allow babies to be euthanized.
They’ve crossed over the slippery slope. Like the Netherlands.
Transparency Sought
Doctors say mercy killings of newborn children have been going on in secret for years, 15 to 20 times per year.
“We want our doctors to be as open as possible; we want transparency here,” said Dr. Edward Verhagen, chief of pediatrics at Groningen and author of the new rules for euthanizing infants adopted this month by the Dutch government.
The new guidelines for infant euthanasia are quite simple: It can occur when the baby’s pain cannot be eased and when there is no prospect for improvement. Parents must, of course, agree to it.
Holland is renowned for its liberalism on social issues. But for many here, the new rules are a step too far.
It is going too far. To take the life of a child, this young, is wrong. It would far more ethical (and expensive, of course) to have these children assessed by as many doctors as possible. To bring the child to the experts (most of whom are here in America). To get second, third, fourth opinions. Every child’s life is worth that at the very least.
“We are working very hard on human rights, on anti-discrimination, the protecting of endangered species, and at the same moment we start to kill just-born babies,” said Bert Dorenbos, president of Cry for Life, a pro-life group. “To say, ‘Okay, this is not a good baby, no quality of life, kill it right away,’ that’s a crime.”
Three years ago, Holland became the first country in the world to legalize adult euthanasia, but it is still struggling with it. Today, fewer and fewer doctors are willing to perform mercy killings because, they find it too personally distressing.
Dutch politicians did not pass a new law legalizing infant euthanasia, and say they have no intention to. Technically, it will remain illegal. However, in practice, doctors will not be prosecuted for it, as long as they follow the new guidelines.
Typical of European nations-who are so advanced and cultured and cosmopolitan. They go back a few hundred centuries with these actions, back to days of barbaric murders. Sadly, the medical community had advanced but isn’t willing to speak out against these crimes- taking the life of babies who could be saved. Doctors over there are wimps
and they disgust me.
“I’m certainly pro-life, but I’m also a human being,” said Henk Jan Ormel, a member of the Dutch House of Representatives. “I think when there is extreme, unbearable suffering, there can be extreme relief.”
Chanou’s parents, whose last name ABC News agreed not to use, say they believe they made the right decision.
“I’m convinced that if we meet again somewhere in heaven,” her father said, “she’ll tell us we reached the most perfect solution.”
Extreme and unbearable suffering is horrible. Let there be no confusion about this and where I stand with it. BUT, since women are allowed to abort fetuses with simple cleft palate disorders (which can be surgically repaired at little cost…) in Europe, then babies born with Down’s Syndrome can be euthanized in the Netherlands. I don’t always blame the parents here, although they often don’t want to keep babies with deformities…I blame the medical people for not making absolutely sure, 190%, that these babies have a chance at life.
December 11th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
You do realize that Holland and the Netherlands are the same country, right? It’s not apparent in your text whether or not you do.
December 11th, 2005 at 4:47 pm
Holland is a province of the Netherlands, like California is a state in the United States. Are all your opinions this factually challenged?
December 11th, 2005 at 5:05 pm
Indeed- but in English-speaking countries, “Holland” is the old form, still in a fair amount of use, for referring to the whole country.
It is clear that this is the context used by our dear author, as we can surmise when we read this:
“Several years ago, Holland became the first country to legalize the mercy killings of adults.”
So, may I then ask in return, as you were so terribly kind to pose a question regarding the academic quality of my “opinions” (a misnomer, really, considering I offered no opinion in my initial response): Are you so smugly certain of yourself that you fail to thoroughly read the actual post in all of your responses?
December 11th, 2005 at 5:28 pm
GuinnessGuy
Actually I was referring to the article these comments are attached to and not your post.
December 11th, 2005 at 5:30 pm
GuinnessGuy
P.S.
You owe me a beer for hurting my feelings. I’m very sensitive.
December 11th, 2005 at 5:30 pm
I see- I’m quite conceited like that, you know.
Still, deterrant, and, interestingly enough, applicable enough to the author of this piece for any future attempts to spin the “Holland” bit.
December 11th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
So sorry, dear boy/girl/spacealien. A united assault it was not (though I daresay a reasonably articulate one).
December 11th, 2005 at 5:34 pm
The ABC article = rubbish.
Dutch abortion goes 24 week, then its court and expect penalty. 2nd opinion policy is common practise, doctors really need to cover their ass, even for 24 weeks. The number of compulary national (!) standard blood tests to prevent late detection of terminal deseases has been increased by a tenfold just 2 weeks ago. Check thefacts of abortion rates (2003) to see where abortion rates in the EU really could be a problem.
rightlyso I can assume that this article gets corrected on both this and the use of Holland and the Netherlands.
Thanks for your attention to this issue though, its appreciated. :)
December 11th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
It occurs to me, while reading this, that there is a great deal of concern on your part about this issue. Leaving aside the fact that you apparently haven’t read The Groningen Protocol, nor the 2004 National Report on this matter. Nor apparently carefully studied the information freely available on the web. If you had done these things you would have learned that there is a requirement for two levels of oversight before such practice can be permitted. The Dutch are a fairly sensible people, and I’ll add in passing, far better educated than most American college graduates. They don’t rush into things precipitously. They’re well aware of the ethical dangers in this policy, as well as the brutally exorbitant costs of maintaining life in which the quality is less than desirable. I suspect they will pay as much attention to US protests as the US paid to their protests about murdering Iraqi children, and maintaining illegal torture prisons in foreign countries.
December 11th, 2005 at 6:39 pm
Ok the social hour is over here.
I corrected the mistake about Holland AND the Netherlands…I meant to say something else.
I have read the Groningen Protocol and I am well aware of the issues surrounding this. I believe it is the COSTS factor that moves this entire policy along. I also firmly believe people who “utilize” this policy are plain lazy, they don’t want to “deal” with children who have disabilities.
I work with this population and there is NO need to put these kids to their death unless they have a TRULY terminal condition- which I do not beleive many really have.
I’m not apologizing for my opinions on this. This policy is wrong. These people support the culture of death and someday it will come back to haunt them.
December 11th, 2005 at 6:53 pm
““We are working very hard on human rights, on anti-discrimination, the protecting of endangered species”
Apparently the endangered species over there is soon going to be “abnormal” babies.
What ever happened to the Hippocratic Oath?
Raven, you know my circumstances, and stance on this issue. I am lsoing all respect for that little shithole of frozen waste, and am beginning to think that if the radical islamists want to bomb their liberal backwards asses then why should we interfere…
Maybe Theo got what was coming to him eh?
December 11th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
Not like this happens in the good ‘ol US of A….
That is, unless you’re poor and black.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3087387.html
December 11th, 2005 at 8:30 pm
So, Sideshow Bob tosses out a race card. First off Bob, no where does the article say the race of those involved. Second, thi is EXACTLY the type of thing we are trying to draw attention to so it doesn’t continue to happen here.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Second, thi is EXACTLY the type of thing we are trying to draw attention to so it doesn’t continue to happen here.
Yes! Let’s draw attention to it over there so we don’t have to draw attention to it over here. Sounds vaguely familiar.
December 11th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
since women are allowed to abort fetuses with simple cleft palate disorders (which can be surgically repaired at little cost…) in Europe
As opposed to the US… in what way?
Is your point that 3rd trimester abortions are allowed for this reason in a particular European country? Not too clear what point you are making here….
December 11th, 2005 at 10:08 pm
But all of the international human rights organization only complain if something happens in the United States, as it is ok for the insurgents to cut off peoples head just because they are americans. A few prisoners were kicked around to get information that saved lives and they complain and could care less if a life was saved.
December 11th, 2005 at 10:12 pm
And how is this a slippery slope?
The new guidelines for infant euthanasia are quite simple: It can occur when the baby’s pain cannot be eased and when there is no prospect for improvement. Parents must, of course, agree to it.
‘pain cannot be eased’, ‘no prospect for improvement’ — these standards seem pretty absolute, indeed, as absolute as possible.
I suspect what is objected to is the openly talking about euthanasia and having the state promulgate regulations for it. Your objections are no more than the urge to sweep the problem under the rug, under theguise of upholding absolute standards that are morally easy to ascribe to.
Wimps.
December 11th, 2005 at 10:14 pm
Pappy,
Many prisoners have been tortured in order to produce ‘intelligence’ that the administration knows is false, so that said intelligence can be used for political purpose back home.
That is the problem. That is a very big problem.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:06 am
Actually, Holland is NOT a province in the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
Holland is a region of the Netherlands that is divided into two provinced, Noord-Holland and Zuid-Holland. So it’s more similar, in fact to the Dakotas or the Carolinas, rather than California.
I just figured factually actuate was a good thing.
December 12th, 2005 at 4:19 am
Actually, Holland is NOT a province in the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
How dare you be more factual than me! You fill me with impotent rage. I’m gonna go kick my dog upside down! Wait a minute… The author said “They’ve crossed over the slippery slope.” That made me giggle. The rage is fading. It’s the dogs lucky day.
December 12th, 2005 at 6:08 am
The parents of the child were relieved of their legal parenthood by the judge. The law case they started is about their believe that the doctors mis communicated and gave Child protection institutions / boards misguided information and were totally judging the parents capability wrongly. I think these parents have the right to fight their case. Several doctors had checked the baby and concluded that it suffered and no cure was available, so they decided to stop all treatment except painkillers, in this case morphine which results in death. The Netherlands are indeed quite liberal compared to the States. But we are not actively exporting our ideals and thoughts about euthanasia.
Your article reminds me that I still have to sign the euthanasia paper, which states that when I am in a situation of extreme pain and no cure is within reach they may stop treatment. I think this paper gives me the freedom to decide that I can die without unnecessary prolonged pain. It also relieves my family and the doctors of the decision of the moment of death. I do not want to die after months of pain just because treatment and equipment can keep me alive for some extra weeks. That is not humane, the question you should ask as a Christian is: Did God gave us the obligation to extend life when possible even if we know that in the end we just do not have a cure for solving the disease in question and the patient does not want to suffer? I am not a Christian and I do not want to suffer endlessly, in that situation I want the right to decide if I want to die or extend my life with a few days / weeks to say goodbye. I firmly believe that medical knowledge should not result in a kind of torture for the patient without a sight of a possible cure. I or a board of doctors when I cant speak out anymore should decide when the treatment is not humane.
December 12th, 2005 at 8:06 am
You’re all nuts. This culture of death is not welcome in my America. You have no clue as to the medical advances that have been made…no one needs to be in pain-there are too many options for this now. Torture? Kiss my ass. Sounds like the doctors over your way need to be a little more advanced.
You also take away the HOPE that people always have.
It’s called WIMPING OUT. Taking the easy road. Ending your own life is one thing, but to do this to a child who has no say?
It’s called MURDER.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:50 am
Oh man, that last post was precious.
Aren’t you a nurse? You’re seriously saying that because of our super-duper medical technology, people with various terminal illnesses aren’t in unbarable pain? Just curious, what terminal illness did you miraculously survive? Well at least when you are on your deathbed, wasting away, death inevitable you’ll have the satisfaction of knowing you didn’t wimp out, as you come in and out of consciousness from the pain.
This culture of death? First of all, that term doesen’t really even make sense I’m so tired of these Fox news buzzwords. Secondly you may be right about that “culture of death” not being welcome in “your” America.
Hell, one would think that a country that executes retarded prisoners and launches pre-emptive wars and tortures prisoners and sells guns like someones going to take them away would have enough death without having to Import it.
Also, “kiss my ass” interspersed with randomly capitolized words is a great way to get people to take you seriously.
December 12th, 2005 at 2:37 pm
Actually, Holland is two thirds of a brilliant Motown songwriting team.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:22 pm
Damn Hollywood elite culture of death worshippers.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:35 pm
Wow, you truly live on another planet.
For your information our healthcare system kicks ass. And it is accessible to every citizen. Please go along with your job of alienated one of America’s best friends.
December 12th, 2005 at 4:05 pm
You just really dont know what you’re talking about…
December 13th, 2005 at 7:56 am
@ Chiel , to who are you talking to? 2nd if it is @ Vincent, explain..
December 13th, 2005 at 1:00 pm
ah, just got a note.. no worries Chiel.
December 13th, 2005 at 4:39 pm
It’s just an excuse. Pain can be managed. Very easily.
I’ve seen sickness up close and personal- people with cancer in every organ, people with AIDS, people in end stage renal, people with all their limbs suddenly gone due to accidents; don’t fucking go there with me. It’s not up to us to stop someone’s life. To just “end” it. I can understand where people come from when they’re concerned about pain. Medicine has come a long way though and I cannot think of ANY illness, terminal and worse, the pain cannot be brought under control.
December 13th, 2005 at 5:31 pm
ESRD sux….a lot….I know, as I am having my THIRD bout with it….most normal people would probably slide into depression, having a normal life yanked away from them for the third time, with serious restrictions placed upon your life….restrictions that never enter into the minds of normal healthy people, such as the amount of K in food, concerns with Ca levels and limited fluid (16 oz. a day)….being dependent on a machine to simply live…
But it is not my choice whether to live or die, it is my duty to live. There are people that depend on me, (a son), and people I have yet to make laugh or piss off.
In another society I would be forced to die, considered a useless drain on society, someoen using resources that could be used for the healthy.
That is NOT where I wish my country to go. And the netherlands can kiss my ass while they sit and feel so smug and superior.
From where I sit perhaps the Caliphate of Hollandia is a good idea after all.
Allahu Akbar you death worshipping motherfuckers!!!!
December 13th, 2005 at 7:14 pm
Pedigree, my health problems started when I was a baby…if these policies had been in place in the U.S. back then Iwould no doubt be dead.
The doctors gave me less than a week to live when I was two years old.
I have them beat by THIRTYFIVE YEARS and counting.
Don’t give me that “no hope scenario, better the child doesn’t suffer” crap.
We have NO RIGHT to decide that.
December 13th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
Ignorance is bliss, eh?
December 13th, 2005 at 8:01 pm
WHO the FUCK are you people??? IdiOts.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:02 pm
The best medical experts are in Cuba?
What the fuck are you smoking?
December 13th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
Damn Raven, I haven’t seen idiots this fucking stupid for along time…..
December 13th, 2005 at 8:05 pm
Please don’t swear. In the Netherlands we euthanize people that swear.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:05 pm
I know, it’s been so long. I don’t miss it one little itty bit. Although this proves once again how ignorant some people really are; it saddens me.
This idiot is smoking dillweed. LOL
Cuban dillweed.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:07 pm
In America we euthanize those who are liberal and cowardly. Like democrats!!
hahaha.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:09 pm
In the Netherlands we euthanize people with such a louzy sense of humor.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
In America we euthanize those who spell as bad as you do.:shock:
December 13th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
Wouter? Since I am not going to the netherlands your little threat has no effect….I will fucking damn well cuss me ass off, bitch, and you can suck my left sweaty nut and lick my ass if tyou don’t like it, you seven-sandwich-eating-mattress-thrashing-cumburping-smegma-encrusted-diarhettic-gutterslug.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:15 pm
Hehehe, seriously, you guys calling Europeans fatties??
Okay, sorry, you guys do have a sense of humor!
December 13th, 2005 at 8:17 pm
Sifco go stuff your stiffy up your own ass-it’s the only way you’re ever gonna get some.
America does rule. Americans are the best and you don’t like that do you? Touched on a raw nerve huh? Good. Now move along. Time to go study for school tomorrow.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:24 pm
How long can we egg you on to keep posting comments?
You mother braids her pit hairs.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
Sifco, read this:
Scottish kids among world’s most overweight
December 13th, 2005 at 8:30 pm
Hey Kender I thought it was me who braided her pit hair??
LOL
I’m closing comments down here for this post, enough is enough.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:30 pm
ok
December 13th, 2005 at 8:31 pm
“Twenty percent of children classed as obese puts Scotland pretty much in the same league as the United States,”
Thanks for providing the ammo. Europe consist of several countries, nitwits.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:32 pm
Are you seriously euthanizing the commenting-possibility now??
December 13th, 2005 at 8:38 pm
Yeah Wouter, we havefat kids, just like the EU does….but we have something the EU doesn’t…..a viable longterm economy and actualy growth:
The EU member countries are at the same economic level as our POOREST states like ARKANSAS!!!!
December 13th, 2005 at 8:56 pm
Yes I read this report Kender..makes me want to go live in Europe where it’s so much better. No wonder it is. They kill off all those who might drain their economies.
Brutal bastards. Someday they will answer for this.
December 13th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
No such thing here, and as far as I know Americans are the nazi’s, attacking a poor country over some last scrap of oil left in this world.
Mass killing civilians and ignoring human rights in the process.
It was your Bush who imitated Hitler’s Reichstag’s lie leaving you to continue his deception.
Point your finger up your own ass instead of poisoning the internet with lies.
Or do we have something the USA wants? We are glad to surrender our nazi cooperating president, please don’t attack us.