ARS on Twitter
RSS
NYT trying to justify themselves again
Posted by Raven on July 1st, 2006
The NYT and LAT gang up in an attempt to “explain” and justify why they published articles about secret government programs designed to help fight the war on terror.
SINCE Sept. 11, 2001, newspaper editors have faced excruciating choices in covering the government’s efforts to protect the country from terrorist agents. Each of us has, on a number of occasions, withheld information because we were convinced that publishing it could put lives at risk. On other occasions, each of us has decided to publish classified information over strong objections from our government.
Right after 9-11 newspaper editors shut up and just watched, like the rest of the world. Everyone was in shock. But then, things settled down. And editors decided to use their opinion pages and front pages as tools to alter public thinking. The editors have a grudge against President Bush and anything he does. This much is TRANSPARENT.
Last week our newspapers disclosed a secret Bush administration program to monitor international banking transactions. We did so after appeals from senior administration officials to hold the story. Our reports — like earlier press disclosures of secret measures to combat terrorism — revived an emotional national debate, featuring angry calls of “treason” and proposals that journalists be jailed along with much genuine concern and confusion about the role of the press in times like these.
Some things are not open to national debate. While I want my freedoms and liberties, I also want my kids to have a life not full of terrorists attacks. I want this country to survive these times. The editors might claim to want the same thing, but they have different terms for freedoms.
Make no mistake, journalists have a large and personal stake in the country’s security. We live and work in cities that have been tragically marked as terrorist targets. Reporters and photographers from both our papers braved the collapsing towers to convey the horror to the world.
Make no mistake: You don’t take the threat seriously anymore. 9-11 was a freak. It’s a once in a lifetime occurance.
We have correspondents today alongside troops on the front lines in Iraq and Afghanistan. Others risk their lives in a quest to understand the terrorist threat; Daniel Pearl of The Wall Street Journal was murdered on such a mission. We, and the people who work for us, are not neutral in the struggle against terrorism.
Yep and these reporters volunteered to do this; not a one of them has been assigned this job. They do risk their lives. You don’t as you sit behind your cushy desk making decisions that could kill your reporters along with millions more American people.
In recent years our papers have brought you a great deal of information the White House never intended for you to know — classified secrets about the questionable intelligence that led the country to war in Iraq, about the abuse of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan, about the transfer of suspects to countries that are not squeamish about using torture, about eavesdropping without warrants.
Abuse?? Those reports were not of abuse. You framed it as such, you tried to convince your readers it was; you don’t know what abuse is. Eavesdropping? On foreigners who we suspected of being terrorists. That’s all. No civil liberties being affected here. Not at all. But you tried to fool us into thinking that. And you conned many- the stupid liberals who are just salvitating over these reports, who don’t know history and right and wrong and good and evil.
The process begins with reporting. Sensitive stories do not fall into our hands. They may begin with a tip from a source who has a grievance or a guilty conscience, but those tips are just the beginning of long, painstaking work. Reporters operate without security clearances, without subpoena powers, without spy technology. They work, rather, with sources who may be scared, who may know only part of the story, who may have their own agendas that need to be discovered and taken into account. We double-check and triple-check. We seek out sources with different points of view. We challenge our sources when contradictory information emerges.
Uh huh. And you pick and choose the political aspects of your stories. You tend to investigate information that comes from those with a liberal agenda- THAT is TRANSPARENT.
But there are other examples. The New York Times has held articles that, if published, might have jeopardized efforts to protect vulnerable stockpiles of nuclear material, and articles about highly sensitive counterterrorism initiatives that are still in operation. In April, The Los Angeles Times withheld information about American espionage and surveillance activities in Afghanistan discovered on computer drives purchased by reporters in an Afghan bazaar.
Heh, there YOU go again, disclosing shit that only the terrorists would know. What a sneaky way to do this. Scums.
We understand that honorable people may disagree with any of these choices — to publish or not to publish. But making those decisions is the responsibility that falls to editors, a corollary to the great gift of our independence. It is not a responsibility we take lightly. And it is not one we can surrender to the government.
Well you need to be fired then. You’re irresponsible. You’re a mouthpiece to the Democrats and we’re sick of you putting us at risk. Keep it up. The NYT will have to change because we, the American people don’t take our lives lightly. We expect our media to be responsible and respectful of this. Appearenty you’re on a different page than we.
July 1st, 2006 at 9:50 am
Democracy doesn’t work well if the voters cant tell what the government is doing – and ’security’ is not a blanket excuse to keep anything and everything hidden.
Its seems simple enough to me. The government was running a couple of programs which were… legally dubious, perhaps. Not because they were monitoring phone records or financial transfers, but because they were doing so without real oversight. The people need to know when such things happen, so they can judge for themselves if the increased threat to privacy outweights the reduced threat of terrorism, and make their decision known come election-day. Many, like yourself, will decide that this is not the case. But they at least should decide for themselves, rather then being kept in the dark about a potential abuse of power that they may or may not object to.
July 1st, 2006 at 1:22 pm
SR, there are some things we just cannot know about. Why this is such a hard concept for some is beyond me.
If we knew every little detail of every program we wouldn’t be here and neither would you…GB is doing the same things.
The legality question is just plain moot. No one is breaking laws- the media wants us to think so, but do a little research and you see– it’s not what the media wants you to think. They get things wrong- they plant little words and phrases to make us think so though.
We need to be smarter than that. And we need to have more faith in our leaders.
July 1st, 2006 at 2:28 pm
If you seriously think that the New York Times is the “Mouthpeice for the Democratic Party” you are out to lunch. I am a proud member of the Democratic Party, and I’m here to tell you that the NYT has betrayed the progressive message so many times it’s not funny any more, and no more speaks for the dems than The New Republic.
July 1st, 2006 at 2:32 pm
This is a free country, or haven’t you heard. The press although not always independent is a necesssary evil, for an informed electorate. I don’t want the government deciding what I should know.
July 1st, 2006 at 2:39 pm
Clicky dippy- the government has a lot of secrets that you will never know- and it’s highly likely you’re alive because of that. It’s not the media’s job to disclose every little thing, every big thing. Some things are NOT within our right to know, I hate to inform you. That’s a diffcult thing to swallow, but it’s fact. I think people are believing the government has no right to protect it’s citizens.
Grow up and get with the real world, the current times.
Accept that not everything is meant to be known.
July 1st, 2006 at 2:45 pm
“We’ve established a foreign terrorist asset tracking center at the Department of the Treasury to identify and investigate the financial infrastructure of the international terrorist networks.”
%The president went on to say: “It will bring together representatives of the intelligence, law enforcement and financial regulatory agencies to accomplish two goals: to follow the money as a trail to the terrorists, to follow their money so we can find out where they are; and to freeze the money to disrupt their actions”
The source? of course, the NY Times.
Psyche. just kidding. the source was the President, in a speech, September 24, 2001.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010924-4.html...
So ask yourself in all your rightwing, blame the media glory….exactly when do we try Bush* for allowing this secret to be let out? OH and the NTY NEVER said Bush* was breaking the law. Or have you even bothered to read the article?
Do try to tell the truth occasionally. This administration has outted itself constantly and has the worst memory in history.
gee ya think we can really get Bush* impeached?
July 1st, 2006 at 3:59 pm
This is much more of a gap between the IT literate and the general populace than a right or left, dem or repub, red state blue state split.
Most of us have known for years and years that we have the capacity to data mine, track financial transactions, record keystrokes, capture audio and visual telemetry – some one needs to tell the bloviating Congress and our intellectually incurious Pres that it is insulting to the average internet user to think that this technology could possibly be a ’secret.’
A far better discussion among the reasonably sane might be why the Republicans have consistently underfunded the hiring of additional international banking specialists as recommended by the 9-11 Commission.
Of course it will never happen, a rational discussion, because it is so politically expedient to shout cries of ‘treason’ from the well of the Congress and our incurious George can rally his ignorant base by throwing the pseudo-red meat…………
July 1st, 2006 at 4:21 pm
Your recap of the NYT article ignored its core message, the quote from Justice Hugo Black regarding the Pentagon Papers: “The government’s power to censor the press was abolished so that the press would remain forever free to censure the government. The press was protected so that it could bare the secrets of the government and inform the people.”
Governments that operate in secrecy (i.e. all dictatorships) with no free press to hold them accountable are always suspect. The Bush administration has been the most secretive government in American history. Thank god for the activist press for exposing their clandestine operations. That’s their job–to protect the public from power-hungry officials who want to push their own agendas. If only the Times had been more “activist” during the run-up to the Iraq war!
Fighting terrorism will be an on-going ordeal for the rest of our days. It isn’t like a traditional enemy that can be vanquished by armies and might. It’s a way of thinking that has to be altered by changing the culture and conditions in which it grows and is nurtured. The Bush administration is using the threat of terrorism to frighten U.S. citizens into ceding them complete power.
It truly bothers me that many of your respondents are willing to give up their second Constitutional right: the freedom to know what our government is doing. The good citizens of 1930s Germany made the same concessions, and look where that got them.
July 1st, 2006 at 4:27 pm
Libsrule: I remember this speech and there are no details here- no mention of the SWIFT program and the deatils of it. So your source just doesn’t cut it. It’s a typical liberal reply to these things. AND, since YOU seem to have already KNOWN about this, why the outrage on so many liberals behalf here????? (At the President and YET another SECRET power grab???)
And Grace- the 9-11 Commission people, Tom Keane himself gave the bank/funding programs an A in their report card…which came out recently. Mr. Keane asked the NYT NOT to print this story as it had too many details. So stop using this Commission to your own benefit when it suits you. I’m not one who respects this commission too much, so it’s a lot for me to even mention them.
All you liberals just cannot accept it when your goverment is trying to protect you- and this baffles me to no end. Would you all rather have a totally transparent government? I think so. I think you’re all crazy AND wrong AND misinformed.
July 1st, 2006 at 5:29 pm
for a good primer to explain exactly why all of you dumbasses from the left are wrong, go look this issue up on nicedoggie.net
You will see that the program did have oversight, was legal, and while the program itself was known about, the operational systems were not.
Asshats.
July 1st, 2006 at 5:30 pm
From the author’s comment immediately above, “All you liberals just cannot accept it when your goverment is trying to protect you- and this baffles me to no end.”
What is the evidence that “your government is trying to protect you” as opposed to, say, “your government is using every means it can to quell dissent, especially regarding the extraordinary extra-legal powers it has assumed”?
What is the evidence that “your government” is actually interested in protecting the country effectively: for example – inspecting containers at ports, protecting chemical and nuclear plants?
What is the evidence that “your government” has really, really tried to capture Osama Bin Laden?
Let’s have some facts. Inquiring minds want to know.
July 1st, 2006 at 5:36 pm
For certain people (such as yourself), I can see that obedience to authoritative figureheads and governments could be a satisfying.Myself, I’d be a lot happier with the way this nation was going if there weren’t a slew of dogmatic, flag waving, imbeciles basically parroting what four or five conservative blowhards say as part of their entertainment/propaganda/bullshit. And if you can’t wrap your mind around the fact that a free press is absolutely essential to a democracy, read a little bit, and not just the latest conservative best sellers.
Thankds
July 1st, 2006 at 5:39 pm
Lefties:
We…are…at…war. Live with it.
July 1st, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Damn Raven,
You do attract the stupid and smelly people with pot for brains.
ya’ll need a fire hose to get the slime off ya.
July 1st, 2006 at 6:30 pm
I’m always amazed (but never surprised) that the apologists for the left are ALWAYS willing to bring up “old news” regarding President Bush’s Sept 24th speech in 2001 that did not give ANY specifics but are not willing to castigate the times for, example the other egregious leaks of national security stuff that the president didn’t mention. Too, where were these folks when Clinton promised to bring the bombers of the Khobar Towers and USS Cole and US Embassies in Africa and… and… to “justice.” Why aren’t they going after that stuff. And, one commenter is absolutely correct, the NYTimes is NOT a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party (and the Democratic Party is NOT synonymous with Progressive either) but it does follow the same general direction and purpose. Denying that is much harder to do even if the Times does detour sometimes from the “party line” although those times are becoming harder to find and farther apart.
July 1st, 2006 at 6:33 pm
Marcella,
Pearls before swine, I assume you aren’t writing to Raven. Raven is a zealot and zealots don’t think, they don’t have to. Zealots have unbreakable faith that gives them the ability to believe things like: America is always right, wars are about good vs. evil, people who don’t agree with me are inherently wrong…
You’ll notice that Raven does not see in shades of grey: The NYT is wrong, the government is right, every time. He/she/it provides an entertaining space for pundits to yammer at each other, but this is mostly so casual internet traffic has something to look at. Nothing will be resolved on this site.
Keep it up commentators, this is entertaining.
July 1st, 2006 at 6:54 pm
Hey, Grendel –
I would rather be a patriotic American zealot than a left leaning, anti-American zealot any day.
I’ve been to plenty of lefty sites, and all I’ve seen at most of those has been a lot of whining. Like Algore, Kerry lost to Bush. Get over it. If it weren’t that liberals, who control the Democratic Party, are still carping and Bush bashing over that, maybe they would have more time to contribute positively to this country, and then, maybe they’d gain the trust of the American people again and have a Dem in the White House within the next ten years and maybe another congressional majority.
It works out great for us Republicans that you lefties don’t learn from mistakes. You keep making them, we keep the White House and Congress. It’s what they call “division of labor”. Keep up the good work. :-)
July 1st, 2006 at 6:58 pm
Sounds like a lot of you would enjoy living under the Taliban. No terrible secrets would be released then.
July 1st, 2006 at 8:21 pm
Leftards like the Taliban, the “insurgents” and all the other terrorists. They fondle them and make excuses for their “behavior”.
I’m a zealot? Good. I’m proud. At least my flag’s colors are red white and blue…unlike these lefties- their color is WHITE.
July 1st, 2006 at 8:22 pm
Yeah Michael– I attract these dumb asses who would rather trade their lives for a right to know every damn “secret” the government has. Problem is, they are putting my life and your’s in jeopardy. But they don’t give a flying fuck. These people are selfish bastards- just like the editors of the NYT.
July 1st, 2006 at 8:42 pm
Responsibility.
We do need a free press, my friends. We also need a responsible press. We guarantee the right to free speech and of freedom of the press, but there are also consequences that can be terrible at both the personal and national security levels. If publishing classified information (no matter how it was obtained) hinders the United States from providing security to its citizens, or if any soldier or agent of the government is harmed as a result of that publication, that would be an unacceptable consequence. And like the right to say what you want – even if libelous or slanderous, there are consequences in doing so. It should be no different for the NYT or any other publication; they may enjoy the right of free press, but that does not give them the right to publish classified information.
Now it happens that there are procedures for applying for government information under the Freedom of Information Act – so I wonder if NYT bothered to solicit the information through that venue. And if the government responded to such a request with a denial of access to such information, then the NYT could have pursued the matter in federal court.
Was any of this done, or are we just left with the decision of editors, all of whom have political biases, and none of who were elected to any office?
July 1st, 2006 at 9:42 pm
This close to the eve of July 4th, it is important to remember that the Founding Fathers went to great lengths to create a government that would not devolve to a monarchy. Three equal branches of government. A president that serves fixed, four year terms (and the people chose to make sure that there were no more than two terms total). A congress with one house up for election every two years and the other up for reelection every six. A Supreme Court where the appointees owe allegiance to no single man or party, only to the law of the land, our Constitution. And yet, still, both Jefferson and Adams were adamant that none of this would work without a free press. They were smart men, and history has proved them right time and again. The Japanese-American citizen internment was a shameful time in our history (keep in mind that not only were these U.S. citizens interned, but their homes, businesses, and property were stolen from them at the same time). As long as there is a free press, that will not easily happen again here. As long as there is a free press, we will never be Germany, falling prey to facile lies about internment camp ovens and emaciated ‘prisoners of war’.
There is no government policy or fact about which the American people do not have the right to a free and open discussion. None. That is the cornerstone of American freedom. If we give it up for the illusion of safety, we lose both. Our Founding Fathers knew that, and tried to warn us. They had gone through a war, had fought knowing they could be hung as traitors to the crown if they lost. They were willing to give up their lives for freedom. But they were aware how easily we the people forget.
The men and women fighting for us are not fighting to keep us safe (if so, they’d be focused on the actual terrorists and bin Laden in Afghanistan). They are fighting to bring our kind of freedom to Iraq (unbidden, true, but it doesn’t matter now because what’s done is done and smashing a country into smithereens is not something that can be undone, and we must stay until they are set on their feet and not leave them in chaos).
When it comes to freedom of speech, there is no right or left or middle. There is only each of us, individually–collectively we the people. And the responsibility that has been invested in us by our Constitution is the power to speak up if we feel any of our many our elected governors is heading in the wrong direction. That is the power of the people. Freedom of speech. Freedom of the press. Freedom…with all its risks and costs and inconveniences.
July 2nd, 2006 at 6:48 am
During the cold war the government hid a lot of info from us- some of this is starting to come out now. There were many “secrets” people didn’t know; the world didn’t end; in fact, the world is safer. Liberals don’t see it like this. I do. I’m not blind like they are.
Freedom of speech is something we all love. That’s what my opinion is here- this post. Commentors are free to jab back at this. The media has no freedom of speech that comes without a price, some responsibility. The NYT used poor, extremely poor judgement with these recent disclosers. I only hope it doesn’t lead to the deaths of people. If it does, Mr Keller can sleep soundly at night feeling the pride of his decision. Because that’s the price we pay: Loose lips Kill.
July 2nd, 2006 at 7:07 am
Lord, Raven:
You keep yammering about Left/Traitor as if there was such a thing except in what passes for your mind. Try to bear in that mind–what little of it is left (!) to you–that we live in a land in which, according to Amendment 1 of the Constitution of the United States of America,–Freedom of the Press is not only allowed, IT IS GUARANTEED.
The last time you jerk-offs tried to make an issue of the ‘traitorous’ NY Times, it was 25 years ago today, as a matter of fact, when they published The Pentagon Papers which I think was all about how Richard Nixon–far from ending the Vietnam War which he had been given a mandate from We The People to do–nonetheless not only did not end it, but extended it into Cambodia and Laos, where it became known as the Secret War. Thank God for the NY Times then, and thank God for it now–with this administration that makes the one run by Tricky Dick so many years ago, look almost statesmanlike by comparison.
And FYI, Raven: it was LIBERALS who built this country’s legal structure. If you don’t like it–then leave it. I’m sure there’s some country that lives under the dictatorship that these fools now in power tried to impose on us, that would love to have you.
And as for bravery–be advised. The ONLY–I repeat ONLY, and that is a matter of public record–Republican of any note who actually served in the Armed Forces AND FOUGHT THE ENEMY–was John McCain. He is the only one of your ilk whom I will stand up and salute–the rest of you are arrant cowards who–as in Dick-less Dick Cheney’s words, had ‘other priorities’ than, for instance, fighting in the Vietnam War.
As we Liberals always see your backs, Raven, when we’re actually fighting in the field–why don’t you take my little suggestion, and show us your back now, as you go to the kind of dictatorship that you and your kind spend all your time trying to make, out of the United States of America.
God bless the United States of America, God TRIPLE BLESS our Armed Forces, and GOD DAMN THE COWARDLY PIG NEOCONS LIKE YOURSELF WHO HAVE NEVER FOUGHT A LICK IN THEIR LIVES, BUT WHO NONETHELESS HAVE NO PROBLEM STARTING AND FOMENTING THE WARS IN WHICH THE REST OF US–MOSTLY LIBERALS–FIGHT AND DIE.
Raven–we’ll be taking back America before long. We almost let you cowardly animals wreck this country, in the name of protecting it from “Duh Terr’rists” in your Noble Leader’s words (another runaway from any kind of military service at all). We’re not letting you people get by with it for much longer. Raven–
AMERICA–LOVE IT (AS IT WAS FOUNDED) OR, LEAVE IT.
July 2nd, 2006 at 7:39 am
yep VF- WRONG. Liberals have done little to make this country what our founders wanted it to be.
You can’t change my mind on that- I used to be a liberal and looked back through history. Cut and run has always been the preferred method of defense for the left. Treasonous rhetoric and “discloser” have always been the backbone to your hype too. Call me a neo con, a nazi, whatever- liberals are pissed at me here because this post hits them where it hurts. As it should. I will never leave this country- unlike some of your fellow liberals who promised to go to Canada after Bush won the last election. Why they all didn’t go is above me and I wish they had. The less people here like you the better off this country is. Don’t like that?
Tough.
The US media, for the most part, has become a leftist mouthpiece and THAT is far more dangerous than anyone else. When the media starts misinforming, disclosing ect it’s time to have a look at just how much freedom they should have. Maybe it’s time to seek change. Let’s be progressive here. I’m writing to some of my elected reps about this.
July 2nd, 2006 at 3:24 pm
A gov’t…of the people, by the people, and FOR THE PEOPLE. Chew on those words awhile Raven and see if you think that has been happening with this current administration…if you can be honest with yourself and others. Keep up the good work NYT!
July 2nd, 2006 at 5:35 pm
Shut up burntorange.
Stop it already with the phoney patriotic speel. You don’t fool me with it- your actions- the actions of your party are far more effective than the words. Not a one of you cares about anything except appeasement and kissing the worlds ass at your own expense. Cowards.
July 2nd, 2006 at 8:14 pm
Raven you go on and on about the Bush administration trying to protect us but they didn’t. We were attacked Sept. 11th under the Bush administration’s watch. Republicans failed to protect us-period.
July 3rd, 2006 at 7:23 am
Betty it was the appeasement, cut and run leadership of Clinton that led the 9-11 terrorists/Bin Laden to think they could pull those attacks off; this cut and run policy emboldened the enemy. Yes- 9-11 occured under Bush’s watch, but this was the direct result of failed democrat leadership. I blame Clinton and so do many others. Now the grown ups, the republicans have to come in and clean up the messes. America has paid dearly for Clinton’s oversight. He was too busy in a closet off the Oval Office to pay attention to Bin Laden’s threats.
July 3rd, 2006 at 8:11 am
One thing that has been largely overlooked is that the NYT and LAT are not publishing everything they could be, not by far. The fact that no government officials have come forward to refute the claims of off-the-record meetings to request the withholding of some material or the evidence of valuable American intelligence purchased at an Afghani bazaar (and we should all be glad this information was secured by the LAT and not someone who is actually an enemy to America) speaks volumes.
As well, It has been mentioned more than once that Bush was given intelligence that suggested a possible attack on America pre-Sept 11, so if Clinton does in fact deserve some blame, he is not alone. And there is no doubt that the time Clinton spent in ill-advised dalliances with aides is nowhere near the time Bush spends vacationing and getting his solid eight hours of sleep each night, a feat no other President has ever boasted of.
While there are some things that no, the people of America will never know, particularly in today´s overwhelmingly convoluted maze of he said she said, if the Bush administration is doing nothing illegal then they have nothing to fear from the uncovering of their scheme. It is necessary to understand what our government is doing, and if we the people consider it necessary we will not protest it.
You speak of appeasing the world as if it were something that is not necessary to our continued power. The fact is that American is not an island, neither literally nor figuratively. We are currently at an all-time low level of regard in the global community, and while yes, we are the current world superpower, if we continue to antagonize everyone else this will not be so for long. Our list of allied is dwindling, other countries are pulling their troops out of the middle east, and the Bush administration has incited the largest global protests in the world´s history. The political face of the world is changing, and if the United States does not change with it we will lose all we have gained in the past 200 years.
July 3rd, 2006 at 6:17 pm
This case should not be about the press. It’s about the leaks. Plug the leaks and the NYTimes won’t have anything to report.
The press is not a danger to our National Security. The Founding Fathers knew that we needed to have a free press to assist the people in their oversight of the government. I don’t agree with what the NYT and LAT did in this particular case, but thank God we have a free press anyway.
It’s these traitors in the Government, who swore an oath not to reveal classified information, who are the real danger to this country. Don’t fool yourselves into believing that this was just noble “whistle blowing”. This was some traitor’s warped agenda (political, personal, whatever). If you take an oath and swear to the American people that you will protect her secrets, and then you break that oath, then you are not worth a damn and are dangerous.
Remember that the press has an obligation to the people, not to the government. They do have a responsibility when they receive this information to determine if the people’s right to know supercedes their right to life, liberty, et. al. I believe in this case that they made a mistake.
It was the leakers, however, who committed the crime.
July 3rd, 2006 at 6:30 pm
Then what of the Bush cabinet who leaked the name of a CIA operative to the media?
July 3rd, 2006 at 6:37 pm
Exactly. They haven’t been able to pin down who did that, either. It wasn’t Scooter Libby because he’s indicted on purgery. Whoever leaked it needs to be held to account.
July 3rd, 2006 at 6:38 pm
:oops: Purgery = Perjury
July 4th, 2006 at 1:54 am
“And editors decided to use their opinion pages and front pages as tools to alter public thinking”
You mean like everyone in the government does everyday?
“Eavesdropping? On foreigners who we suspected of being terrorists.”
We only suspect them of being terrorists many of them are innocent. We have imprisoned people we suspected of being terrorists. They were not proven to be and some are completely innocent.
“Heh, there YOU go again, disclosing shit that only the terrorists would know. What a sneaky way to do this. Scums.”
Wow you are something. They didn’t give any details. And shit there are people out there who know about this stuff and they know the details but no one listens to them.
Well you need to be fired then. You’re irresponsible.
“You’re a mouthpiece to the Democrats and we’re sick of you putting us at risk. Keep it up. The NYT will have to change because we, the American people don’t take our lives lightly. We expect our media to be responsible and respectful of this. Appearenty you’re on a different page than we.”
You are only speaking for yourself not the American people, so don’t make it sound like everyone is backing you on this for I and my company mostly disagree with you.
The NYT doesn’t have to change. They have freedom of press and as soon as you censor one you have to censor them all killing this freedom. If this happens the government will walk all over this country and all the McCarthy’s and corrupt officials will win. Bush is un-American because he doesn’t listen to the people. He changes the topic so many times to avoid the real issues at hand.
Sure some of the things Bush has done have been good for this country but that isn’t what makes a good president. What makes a good president is all the bad things they do….or lack there of to be more precise.
The NYT and the LAT are just doing their part to insure that this country’s freedoms are held strong and to help educate the people.
P.S. not to nit pick but it is spelt apparently not appearenty.
July 7th, 2006 at 6:18 pm
At first, I thought that this was funny. Then, I thought that this was getting wearying. Now, I’m actually kind of angry. Do ANY of you actually listen to yourselves? “The Democrats do this” “Republicans don’t do that”"George is this”"Clinton was that”
I MEAN REALLY! Has everyone lost sight of the big picture here? It is not a question of which side is right; they’re both HORRIBLY flawed. It is not even a question of which STANCE is right or wrong. It’s a question of what is best for EVERYBODY. Republicans AND Democrats. Liberals AND Conservatives. Because, in the end, we are ALL Americans, and we ALL deserve the same ammount of respect. RAVEN…I’m sure that you are a nice, Christian person, right? Now, forgive me if I’m steriotyping you, but you seem, to me, like you are some denomination of Christianity (Catholic, Evangelical, Lutheran, ect) Does the Bible not say that you should LOVE thy neighbor? Does it not say to turn the other cheek? It does. How, may I ask, are you loving your neighbor? By shouting at them? By calling them “Cowards”. Yes, others have done the same thing, but that is where that little “cheek-turning” thing comes in. Yes, it’s inconveniant. Yes, sometimes you just want to go ahead and punch. But that isn’t neccissarily what you SHOULD do…
And as for the comment about, “The less people here like you the better off this country is.” When I first read that, I was honestly rendered QUITE speachless. The whole reason that the UNITED states of America was founded was so that the colonists would have a country of their own, a country that they could be themselves in, a country in which they didn’t have to live under the rule of ONE man, a country where they could be FREE. If you think that one uniform blob of people is a good thing- and it is YOUR oppinion, I’m not belitting that- than it seems that you are looking not for a democracy, or even a republic, but a full on dictatorship.
I’m going to stop now- or at least in a wee bit- because I have a feeling that this isn’t REALLY going to be of any help to ANYONE. Some will accuse me of being just another stupid,un-patriotic liberal. Some will accuse me of “siding with the enemy”. What I’m trying to point out, however, is that we shouldn’t be picking sides AT ALL. If we are meant to stand united, then we have to unite. Just think about what happened after the attack on the WTC; the whole country united into one giant, flag-waving ball of Americans. And we ruled. I was never more proud of America. Now, we are tearing ourselves apart. These people over here, those over there, and the few in-between don’t matter. Well, as we can see, that strategy does NOT work. In fact, we are setting ourselves up for a BIG fall in the near future.
One last comment, and I’ll shut up…
I have to tell you, Raven, that your comment that, “9-11 was a freak. It’s a once in a lifetime occurance.” honestly made me laugh out loud. A freak? Once-in-a-lifetime? Are you SERIOUS?! THAT line of thinking is what allowed it to happen in the first place. America’s goverment (Bush, Clinton, and many before them) were lulled into a false sense of security. Oh, we’re AMERICA. NOTHING can happen to us; we’re too AWESOME! Then something bad DID happen, and it shook us up. We were suddenly afraid, unconfidant, AWARE. Just like all the other countries out there who face these things EVERY DAY. Now, we’re back to strutting. We’ve seemed to have forgotten our mortality again. And you can be sure that another attack will come; they allways do.
And I apologize for the overly-long reply…but I just felt that I had to say what I said…er, TYPED anyways. Thanks for (hopefully) listening:)
July 7th, 2006 at 6:49 pm
Ravin’ Raven,
You expose yourself as another hapless dupe in the fallacious ‘War on Terror’. Fear is your achilles heel. ~3000 killed in the 9/11 ‘attack’ and we respond with 10s of thousands killed and 100s of billions wasted. Each year 400,000 Americans die from health related affects of cigarette smoke and our response is a comparable pittance. Where is the proportionality? There is none. In reality the war on terror is the greatest land/power grab since America was stolen from the Indians. The Coward in Chief loves gullible fools like you.
July 7th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
“The NYT will have to change because we, the American people don’t take our lives lightly.”
NO Raven,
You do not speak for the American people. You’re a fearful individual and real Americans aren’t fearful. Like most conservatives you’re really a coward, all too ready to send others to die for your morally bankrupt agendas. It figures your heros (W, Cheney, Limbaugh, Wolfowitz, Pearl, etc..) are today’s chicken-hawks who ran when their time to serve came about. Stop shaking and crawling out from under your covers sometime-and pull your head out of Bush’s ass.
July 8th, 2006 at 7:56 am
As George Orwell wrote, we human beings are capable of convincing ourselves of something that’s not true long after the accumulated evidence would convince any reasonable person that it’s wrong. In short, no matter what is submitted here, even if it is the truth, your belief system will forbid you to submit to it. It is therefore, laughable that on the very pages that you trash the liberties of a free press, you proudly bear the phrase, “Give me liberty or give me death.”
November 12th, 2006 at 11:05 am
Raven:
We have–as I told you back in July that we would–taken our country back. Happened on Election Day, in case you were out to lunch somewhere. The Liberals who built America took it back from the rotten disgusting NeoCON, triple-damned cowards and thieves, who tried to steal our country. Raven–things are going to be a lot different from what they have been, recently. Because if they’re not, the rest of the country–which spoke loud and clear on Nov. 7, 2006–will hire different people to fix America up, the way it was before 2000–the way that it should be, again.
Waxman (Henry) took one look and recoiled–his Government Oversight Committee mandate, will be keeping him busy, night and day. 100 HOURS??? 100 YEARS will be more like what it’ll take, just to print up all the Subpoenas that he’ll be needing; hopefully the first four will be to: Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld (who, seeing the handwriting on the wall, did the cut & run thing (which shows that he at least, is not crazy!)
And the New York Times–once more–is heroic as it always has been, in times of would-be dictatorship. That’s what it is supposed to be; that’s one of the inalienable (and I don’t use the word lightly) freedoms that our Founding Fathers passed down to us, and which, since the year 2000, and right on up to this Election Day just past, truly were in mortal danger–even worse than they had been, under Nixon! Making the NY Times stance even more heroic: because Bush The Son, makes Nixon–bad as he was–look like a statesman!
Oh–and guess what else?! Bush–35 years after his Daddy fought tooth and nail to keep his little scared baby ass out of Vietnam–Bush is, actually, finally going to Vietnam!!!
Of course, there’s no war going on there, anymore. It’s peaceful now, in Vietnam. Otherwise, the Coward-In-Chief would be going nowhere near there; count on it!
AMERICA–LOVE IT (AND THE LIBERALS WHO FOUNDED IT, FOUGHT FOR IT, AND DIED FOR IT)–OR, LEAVE IT!
GOD BLESS OUR GREAT COUNTRY! AND NOW, LET OUR TROOPS COME HOME FROM THE BUSH&CO-DRIVEN, CHARNEL HOUSE CALLED IRAQ. LET NOT ONE MORE DIE FOR THE GREED & PROFIT-DRIVEN CROOKS, SHITHEELS AND THIEVES WHO ARE NOW OUR (VERY) TEMPORARY, LEADERS…GOD BLESS OUR GREAT COUNTRY, AND GOD BLESS THE PEOPLE WHO SPOKE SO LOUDLY, ON ELECTION DAY 2006!