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Freedom Fries over French Ties
Posted by Raven on August 4th, 2006
The NYT once again proves its ignorance with world affairs.
When Congress renamed the French fries sold in its cafeterias “freedom fries” before the Iraq war, Bob Ney, whose position as House Administration Committee chairman put him in charge of the cafeterias, said the change registered “the strong displeasure of many on Capitol Hill with the actions of our so-called ally, France.” In the real world, it mainly allowed people to register their strong displeasure at how juvenile Congress was being.
Seems to me many folks wrote to their elected officials asking for some sort of action against France…I know I did. Sure, it may have been childish, but, hey we’re dealing with France here.
A French Embassy spokeswoman gamely told The Associated Press at the time that “we are at a very serious moment dealing with very serious issues, and we are not focusing on the name you give to potatoes.” But “freedom fries” was intended to be, and was, a poke in France’s eye. Harassing the French is probably not the wisest course now that America may need their help negotiating a ceasefire in Lebanon.
Yes, this is the same France who just the other day said IRAN was a STABILIZING force in the Middle East. We so need their help.
Days after calling Iran a “stabilizing” force in the Middle East, French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy issued a statement harshly criticizing Iran’s call on Thursday to destroy Israel.
“I totally condemn these words,” Douste-Blazy said on France-Inter radio, in response to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s statement Thursday that the solution to the current Middle East crisis was to destroy Israel.
“Peace and security in Lebanon and its borders has to be preserved by the Lebanese government and people. Deployment of foreign forces is not acceptable in any shape unless it is just, based on UN rules and preserves the unity and territorial integrity of Lebanon,” he said.
I totally condemn France and the New York Times. They both prefer to keep the status QUO in the Middle East; they both prefer the Global Test be passed before any nation defends itself. They both subject US sovereignty to UN standards, which have proven to be so BAD. I’ll take Freedom Fries any day over FRENCH fries.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:54 pm
Get your grammar right. It’s “its” referring to what belogs to the NYTimes.
It’s not a minor point.
August 4th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Thank you, Sharon.
It’s hard to believe an argument is well-reasoned if its author lacks basic communication skills.
August 4th, 2006 at 5:01 pm
Sharon, “belogs”? means what dear?
August 4th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
This entire “French fries” story is ridiculous. French fries do not exist. Fries are from Belgium not from France.
August 4th, 2006 at 6:55 pm
What is much much worse that telling the French that they were wrong is having to admit they were absolutely right is 1. Advising that the UN weapons-inspectors needed more time, and 2. That invasion risked provoking civil war between the different groups in Iraq.
Not the first time they were right either. You will remember that in 1940 the ‘surrender-monkeys’ stood alone (vith minimal British assistance) against the might (and twice the population) of Nazi-Germany. When France fell, losing more men than the US lost when it took on the a Germany already beaten by the USSR, the valiant US (having ignored US calls to join it in the fight for democracy)immediately recognized the Nazi-friendly Vichyites as the legal government of France.
August 4th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
Prior to 1940, the French and English policy of appeasement allowed Hitler to build up his navy and army; it allowed Germany to occupy Sudetenland and Czechoslovakia. Had the French been more willing to FIGHT vs. wimp out, they probably never would have had to SURRENDOR to Hitler in the first place. The French appeasement model is not one the world should follow. Time after time, it shows failure after failure. Let’s not even talk about Iraq- France had it’s dirty hands in Saddam’s oil lined pockets and that is the ONLY reason France was against an invasion. Let’s be truthful here.
August 4th, 2006 at 9:00 pm
That’s a typically self-centered macho and easy thing to say. In the “war to end all wars” of just 20 years before, French casualities were in the MILLIONS. Can you honestly say after having lived (if you had lived) through sonmething like that, you would rush back to war? Of course in 20/20 hindsight it was an obvious mistake, but France’s reaction to WWWI was to chill out, perhaps too much so. They didn’t comprehend that Germany’s psychotic reaction would be the opposite. Read a little history – the French with their so-called “appeasement policy” have been in major wars since long before this country existed, including a war with Britain that helped the fledgling US survive. Maybe a little more patience is not such a bad thing. Are you feeling good about your president’s “mission accomplished” now that the enemy has “brought it on?” Things a re a little more complicated than that, it seems.
August 4th, 2006 at 9:15 pm
The Times was right on. What a fantastically stupid and juvenile thing “freedon fries” was. Hard to believe these people are making globally important decisions for our country.
August 4th, 2006 at 9:15 pm
CHILL OUT???? WTF?? How many MILLIONS lost their lives because France demanded the world, CHILL OUT.
Ah yes…France. The experts at war.
- Gallic Wars- Lost.
- Italian Wars- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.
War of the Spanish Succession – Lost.
- The Napoleonic Wars – Lost.
- The Franco-Prussian War – Lost.
- World War I – Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States
- World War II – Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain.
- War in Indochina – Lost. French forces plead sickness.
- Algerian Rebellion- Lost.
And:
- War on Terrorism- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe.
August 4th, 2006 at 9:19 pm
Jim, it’s hard to believe ANYONE would trust the French to be making any global decisions based on their track record. Sorry. Yeah, french fries and other names are silly indeed; the point of this post was about France and it’s total lack of credibility- along with the NYT and, sadly, most liberals and Democrats (who obvisouly haven’t learned from history)
August 4th, 2006 at 9:46 pm
I didn’t say they were good at fighting wars, just that they’ve had their share. Napoleon did conquer most of Europe and fought off the combined efforts of all its powerful neighbors until fateful Waterloo, and France did hold its own again Germany’s superior numbers in WWWI, but I guess that’s besides the point. Yeah, and they got out of it’s Indochinese colony just in time for a country stupider to get in – who is that a critique of exactly? Our country has been blessed with an isolated position that has allowed us to pick and choose who we fight and when. So know we think of ourselves as unbeatable, and are in the process of learning a harsh lesson about the reality of war. Bush is a shining example of this self-rightous and overconfident attitude. We are dealing with the legacy of colonialism and occupation, and playing right into the hands of the fanatics trying to paint the west as imperialistic. There will soon come a time when anything less than ethnic cleansing will be seen as “appeasement” as the entire middle east becomes more and more anti-western. Check out today’s march in Bagdad by Shiites in support of Hezbollah burning US flags. And here we are, the suckers spending a billion dollars a week to buck the status quo. Well, its bucked alright.
August 4th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
I was talking about OUR leaders. I don’t give a rat’s ass about the French. But when we make ourselves look like cartoon characters by using congressional time to rename snack food, you gotta wonder where we get off pointing fingers at other country’s leaders and their decisions.
But hey we got a thriving democracy in Iraq and things are looking sunny all over the Middle East. Mission accomplished!
August 4th, 2006 at 10:08 pm
Sorry. Didn’t mean to go on and on about the French. You’re right to be more concerned with what OUR leaders are doing. I just think some people criticize other nations in an effort to whitewash the crap that’s going on here. Freedom Fries was a perfect example of that.
August 4th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
Devin: Indeed. And what are OUR leaders doing? Oh yeah, August recess. Time to hang out at the ranch, clear some brush, wait for the next major catastrophe, then fail to respond.
August 5th, 2006 at 1:14 am
What stands out for me about “freedom fries” is a news story about people in North Carolina adopting the new name to show their outrage about how un-American France was being. Pop quiz: Which of these has never fought a war against the United States? (a) France; (b) North Carolina. (Hint: begins with “F”.) But wait. There’s more. The North Carolinians who so proudly eat Freedom Fries (and, I suppose, “freedom kiss” their girlfriends) also fly Confederate flags — and have gone to court many times to keep the right to do so — as a proud symbol celebrating the fact that the forebears of these ultra patriots went to war against their own country. If you believe uncritically every single thing the government says, that’s your business. But with all the people who make real sacrifices for our country — the military and their families, of course, and public safety workers, but also lots of other people who give generously of their time to help our communities — it is smug and shallow for anyone to claim a place in the Pantheon of Great Patriots just because they stood up and re-named a snack food.
August 5th, 2006 at 4:15 am
Ahhh, yes, the “I am a tough-guy, I got USMC pics on my website and I hate France (because I am too stupid to learn a foreign language)” debate…
And, what’s this, the just-as-trite “I am a history buff, let’s have a serious discussion centered around the merits of a country and its people based on what its forebearers (who are all dead now) did 60 years ago” counter-argument.
Don’t you people have lovers or kids or musical instruments or something? Stop clogging up my internet with dumbnitude.
August 5th, 2006 at 9:25 am
This is an amusing blog. Raven calls NYTimes ignorant. I’m willing to bet that those writers have a few more creds on world affairs than “Raven”. Raven, dear, it is time to understand that this president has been a disaster on many fronts. He’s a disgrace even to republicans. Are you one of those who believe that there WERE weapons of mass destruction, and Saddam masterminded 9/11? It’s okay to move on. Don’t hang on so desparately.
August 5th, 2006 at 10:27 am
Raven, WE ? WE BEAT THE GERMANS IN WW2?
By the way, it was liberal democrats like Pres. FDR & Wilson that led WW1 & WW2 in defeating RIGHTWING Fascism. Republicans in congress were against helping Britain against Germany. (see book,”Illustrious Dunderheads” by Rex Stout) This book documents ALL floor speeches of repugnants in Congress argueing AGAINST in helping Britain against the Fascists! Gee, I wonder why?
France? the same France that helped America’s revolutionary war?
That one?
That France, that without it’s help in 1776, America would not have been born?
That France?
Or the France that has troops right NOW in Afghanistan assisting America against Osama & Taliban? the real LINK to 9/11
That one?
Or the France that gave us the Enlightenment giants of Voltaire,Montesquieu & Jean J. Rousseau whose writings influenced our Founding Fathers?
That France?
August 5th, 2006 at 11:24 am
France has always been on the losing side of any conflict. All the lost wars indicate their policies of appeasement do not work. France has lost more than it has won. History can’t be changed people.
You people love to compare facisim with republicans: There is a big difference and you all know it. Stop using that old argument.
And about journalist being educated: Sure they are. But they don’t know how to be journalists anymore- they don’t report and nothing else. The add opinion, conjecture, they embellish their reports with politcal undermining statements. They don’t tell the truth. They twist facts and write headlines that are decieving and decietful. The NYT tops the list here too.
August 5th, 2006 at 11:56 am
Not only is your blog really hard to read because of the background, but the content indicates that you are very uninformed. Please take a class in international relations before you advertise your ignorance to the world.
August 5th, 2006 at 11:58 am
Try to get your news from somewhere besides Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and get your head out of your ass.
August 5th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
Raven, Regarding truth, remember the “mushroom cloud” threat, Cheney’s oft repeated “Saddam” link to 9/11, and “they’ll be greeting us with flowers”…do you know that 85% of servicemen/women in Iraq polled, think they’re there to avenge Saddam for 9/11? Do you think this administration wants to straighten out that “misperception” that they created? Don’t you think it’s a crime that they don’t even know what they are fighting and dying for?
August 5th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
You’re all dipshits. I’m not responding to any more of your ignorant bullshit responses. We on the right call what you’re all doing:
Drinking the Kool Aid of your political leaders. Democrats no less.
August 5th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
That’s a cop out. What’s ignorant about what we have written? Who’s drinking the cool aid? Who’s buying the propaganda that we are in iraq to avenge Saddam for 9/11? Raven: Liberals are not your enemy, despite what Ann Coulter says to sell books. Liberals are not welfare-loving god-hating peaceniks. Liberals love their country, love their kids, want good jobs, work hard, and want good effective schools. We are not from cookie-cutter molds, we’re all different. We want freedom of speech and freedom of religon and leaders that don’t lie to us. We want minimum wage raised because no one who works hard should have to live on $10,000 a year. Most of us actually were for going into Afganistan. If you fall for all the “evil liberals” talk, you’re falling for a con by those who’ve learned that it works to play nasty to get elected.
August 5th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
Ha, ha! Would that be “French Dip” shits? Excuse me, FREEDOM dipshits! You gotta love these amateur blogs.
August 5th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
Dina, I used to call myself a liberal. Sorry- the Democrats have changed into something I can no longer stick with. They are not my enemies? I don’t see it that way. I really DON’T. I know you all love your country and your kids and your families. I also know many of you work hard and are more than willing to give away ALOT of your hard earned money to taxes for welfare/entitlement programs that many, many take advantage of (I see this in my work, nursing, all the time.) I don’t believe the USA should, nor needs, world approval for anything we do. Classes in international relations? No. THIS country does MORE for this world than every country combined. THIS country has provided this world with more medical and scientific cures/inventions/discoveries than any other nation.
THIS country is a model for others to follow. THIS country is based upon freedom of individuals. You all whine about that- Bush has stomped on freedom and rights. Bull. It’s not about Bush or Clinton or Kennedy. It’s about WE THE PEOPLE. Democrats want to see everyone share their rewards of hard work with everyone else. Republicans want to see everyone work hard for themselves. I chose the Republican thinking on this.
Freedom of speech is great and I don’t want to see that change either. If I say I don’t think France is an effective party in world peace issues, I expect my speech to be respected. Most of you here have proven to me that it’s not possible from liberals- with the mildly humourous insults and attacks on me and what I wrote. You set yourselves up for me to percieve you the way I now do…Not a one of you has left me a comment without some sort of insult or dig. I percieve you the way you present yourselves. Snotty. Better than me. Above me. A higher being. Do you know MANY people feel this way about liberals and Democrats? It is fact. You’re all full of hyprocracy too and that bothers me a lot; you cannot even see it in yourselves. I used to be just like you.
I NEVER said ANYTHING about invading Iraq/Saddam/9-11- YOU all mentioned that and assumed I beleive that line of BULL. I do not think Saddam had anything to do with 9-11.YOU people put words in my mouth and basically twisted my post here. See what I mean- this is KOOL AID thinking.
You assume I read Ann Coulter; someone else assumed I listen to Rush- I don’t “do” either. Putting words into someone’s mouth is the ultimate insult and you’ve all proven to me that I made the right choice when I switched parties.
Someone else dogged me out for having a Marine in the header. My (X) husband is a Marine; most of my men friends are Marines. I love the USMC for what they are- the best friend an American can have and the worst enemy an enemy of America can have. A Marine will put his life on the line so that I can live. Not too many of you would do that.
And to the person who lied about our soldiers not knowing why they are in Iraq. That poll is wrong. Go read some MilBlogs written by serving soldiers in Iraq. You need to do this and see for yourself, thousands of bloggers tell a different story than your poll.
You’re responses here, like I said, show me how much better off I am by changing my politics. I am proud to be who I am and there isn’t anything you can say to change that. You all come across as pompous, better-than-thou people who know it all. You think people like me are stupid. You show it with your attitude and you know what? I choose not be like you. I don’t talk to my worst enemies the way you have all commented here. Thank you for showing the true colors of who you all are.
August 5th, 2006 at 5:22 pm
If you’re going to play right-wing pundit, you need to get a thicker skin. And raise the level of discussion yourself (“dipshits”? Come on!)
Also, you might not want a link on the NYT editorial page! I hear a lot of nasty liberals hang out there.
August 5th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
Dear Raven,
i believe you should try to read this website : http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2003/1107nj1.htm#.
And if you feel yourself less anger, I should very much like to discuss with you about what you emphasise about France. I’m a Frenchman always happy to exchange ideas with other people. Sorry for my poor english. I do my best to avoid language mistakes.
August 5th, 2006 at 5:38 pm
Who said I’m playing RW pundit Jim?? There you go again- putting out there things that are not so. Thick skin? Ha. I have very thick skin my friend. Just because I call you on on you’re insults and other typical liberal reaction to anything you percieve as a threat, that makes me thin skinned? I didn’t ask anyone to raise any level of discussion: THERE YOU GO AGAIN. If you read a little about me you would see, I say it very clearly- I swear alot.
Get over it.
Why shouldn’t I link to a NYT editorial page? I’m not afraid of the liberals, YOU and these others. Remember, I used to be just like you all.
August 5th, 2006 at 5:54 pm
Surely, I will not discuss the opportunity to name the fries “Freedom fries” or “French fries”. It seems a little odd to spend so much time with such a insignificant thing. I’m agree with you Raven: “it may have been childish”.
But I cannot leave you say that “France has always been on the losing side of any conflict.” Can you really imagine that for 2000 years France has just known defeats and no victory ?
Regardless the long years of the french history, what about Afghanistan ? What about the french special paratroopers who have been fighting for 5 years alongside their american brothers in arms to counter terrorism? Are they risking their lives only to be on the loosing side ? I cannot believe it. I guess we will win this war especially thank to USA, but also with a few french soldiers who are proud to be here with american soldiers.
August 5th, 2006 at 6:06 pm
Dear Raven,
without any kind of mock of my part, in your list of so-called french defeats, the Italians wars were not war against Italians but Austrian.
August 5th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
Wow…..one moronic fucknugget after another.
Chris, please don’t ask people to not clog up the internet with “dumbnitude” unless you are willing to send me your crayon colored dictionary that explains what “dumbnitude” means, and please get yourself a glass belly button also.
Dina, I don’t know where you get your stats on what “85% of servicemen” think, but I know about 35 guys in Iraq right now, and 23 that have returned, and after reading your comment I called the ones that have come home and emailed the ones there and asked them. NOT ONE that have responded (26 so far) have said anything about saddam.
Frankly dina, you are full of shit. That must be why shit is all that spews from your piehole.
Dina, liberals are indeed one of our enemies at home, and the fact that you do not see the socialsit road they are dragging us down with multiculturalism and other policies proves your idiocy.
When the revolution comes, dina, lawyers will be the first against the wall…..are you a lawer dina?
August 5th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
By the way, why the hell are all of you libs and asshats not leaving a link to your sites? Maybe you don’t have one…..maybe you’re afraid to do so.
Either way it is a sure sign of cowardice or laziness and I am suggesting to raven to enact a new policy of no valid weblink, no fucking asshatted comments.
I would suggest that all of should be bitch slapped with a dead fish but most of you would probably enjoy it, and Dina’s girlfriend would probably accuse her of cheating on her and throw her out.
(and yes that was a personal attack….if you don’t like it stay the fuck off of my friends site and quit being an asshat……I have many more insults to fling at teh ultra sensitive, crosseyed, felching, yellow bellied, spineless cowards that don’t leave links to their sites.)
August 5th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
Piere, this isn’t a dating site.
I honor any Frenchman who is willing to stand side by side with an American soldier; I’m not sure I would trust the Frenchman to guard the American though, or give it all as the American would (and have).
August 5th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
Kender, isn’t this so typical of the way liberals attack others? They pick on spelling and grammar, they put words in mouths, they lie, they twist, they change topic. I know. I’ve been one. THANK GAWD I saw the right way.
August 5th, 2006 at 11:21 pm
Hey kender, what cowards are you talking about?
You must be talking about all those “BRAVE” republicans who CUT & RAN AWAY, right?
Let’s take a ANOTHER gander:
Republicans
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. “Bad knee.” The man who attacked Cleland’s patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon! Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. “Knee problem,” although continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a ‘pilonidal cyst.’)
* Bill O’Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
============
Democrats
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier’s Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII.
Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.
August 5th, 2006 at 11:26 pm
Raven, WE ? WE BEAT THE GERMANS IN WW2? Who is the WE?
By the way, it was LIBERAL democrats like Pres. Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt that led WW1 & WW2 in defeating RIGHTWING Fascism. Cowardly Republicans in Congress were against helping Britain against Germany. (see book,”Illustrious Dunderheads” by Rex Stout) This book documents ALL floor speeches of repugnants in Congress argueing AGAINST in helping Britain against the Fascists! Gee, I wonder why?
France? the same France that helped America’s revolutionary war?
That one?
That France, that without it’s help in 1776, America would not have been born?
That France?
Or the France that has troops right NOW in Afghanistan assisting America against Osama & Taliban? the real LINK to 9/11
That one?
Or the France that gave us the Enlightenment giants of Voltaire,Montesquieu & Jean J. Rousseau whose writings influenced our Founding Fathers?
That France?
August 6th, 2006 at 12:15 pm
Hey ZeBob- what’s your point?? So you copied and pasted names. What’s your point? What does this have to do with anything written here? Cut and run? No. Those who didn’t serve cannot be accused of cutting and running. Sorry- you show ignorance once again.
August 6th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
Raven, I’m clever enough (I guess !!!) to have noticed that your site is not a “dating” one (thank to my wife who had learned english in university and said to me what is a dating site!) regarding all the nice and pretty debates I can read here between Republicans and Democrates.
I suppose that the “dear” for you was not very approriate. OK and sorry, my french polite ways could seem to quaint for the New Hampshire.
More seriously, what do you exactly mean when you say : “I’m not sure I would trust the Frenchman to guard the American though, or give it all as the American would (and have).”
This expression is a little bit opaque for me.
August 6th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
Raven, what are you so pissed off about? What have the Democrats “Changed into” that’s so horrible? I don’t like to have my money spent on welfare cheats either, and neither do I want to see my money wasted in Iraq. I do not feel it is our job or in our country’s best interest to go around the world forcing our form of democracy down everyone else’s throat. I did not say you believe the line about Saddam and 9/11, I asked if you did. But I do think the republican party has created that lie and promoted it to gain support. I’m telling you a few tidbits on why I don’t like the republican party. Other than thinking that we love to give our money to the poor, (we don’t) and that we’re pompous (we can be, so can republicans), I still don’t get why you dislike democrats so much.
August 6th, 2006 at 10:08 pm
During WWII the majority of the French were in favor of Nazism. Americans can say that we liberated them, but to be accurate, it is the residents of the “liberated” country who should decide if they were liberated or not.
Try asking someone from Vietnam if they were liberated from anything by our invasion. Try asking someone from Iraq if they feel we are doing anything to liberate them.
August 7th, 2006 at 12:28 am
Acme Thunderer,
firstly where have you see or read that during WWII the majority of the French were in favor of Nazism ? In a comics ? Or in the worst US magazine where you can read in every page that the French are only wimps and cheese eating surrender monkey ? During WWII 1000 000 of French were happy to collaborate with Germans, 1000 000 try to resist and 38000 000 try to eat every day because of the huge plot conducted by the Nazis in France. Don’t have to simply opinion about complex question. I guess you wouldn’t accept to see a French teel you that USA until the 24 dec 1941 were in favor of nazism because they let the Brits alone faced the Nazis and because Roosevelt had officialy links with the fuking Marschall Petain’s french governement wich was under orders of Hitler and because the same Roosevelt didn’t help until 1943 general De Gaulle who tried to resist ?
And yet I guess that Roosevelt was not really in favor of nazism…Don’t have to simply opinion about complex question.
Secondly, you are right “it is the residents of the “liberated” country who should decide if they were liberated or not”. And in France the “residents” have decided in 1944 : they have received the GI’s for what they were : the liberators of the greatest demacraty in the world
At last, I can speak of that because my father fought since 1940 against Nazis in the french army of North Afriqua and my family lived in France during the nazis occupation.
August 7th, 2006 at 12:32 am
Raven,
I have red back your paragraph about the so-called French appeasement model.
France was the only country, other than the United States, to conduct air strikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan, with their Mirage jets and Super Etendard fighters hitting more than 30 targets during Operation Anaconda in March 2002. The French enthusiastically backed the Afghanistan war alongside USA : is that an appeasement model ?
Is that the prove that the French are wimp out ?
Don’t use history anyhow (for instance the huge and humiliating defeat of 1940) to affirm that “had the French been more willing to FIGHT vs. wimp out, they probably never would have had to SURRENDOR to Hitler in the first place.”
100 000 jung French soldiers died in 1940 (as much as a great offensive during WWI) to defend their lovely country. Is that the behaviour of wimp ?
The defeat of 1940 was not the defeat of the soldiers who fought bravely and often die but it was the defeat of the French and the British politics who failed to stopped Hitler early enough and the defeat of the French generals who understood to late the power of the tanks and of the air-fighters.
So don’t tarnish the reputation of the French soldier in 1940 who often sacrifices their live. They were no wimp.
A last thing about WWII and this famous coward French soldiers. Do you know wich army breakthrough the strong German front in Italia in 1943-1944 when US and England failed for 6 months to do so ? It was simply the fucking French army full of wimps. This army has attacked the Germans in the Italian mountains and has opened the road to Rome.
Is that a behaviour of wimps ? I don’t think so.
See you soon (OK, OK I have unterstood, your site is not a dating one).
August 7th, 2006 at 9:59 am
Yo kender & Raven—- 3 words for ya: REPUBLICAN Great Depression!
Open a history book and go to the chapter on GOP Great Depression and then continue on to the chapter on FDR’s LIBERAL “New Deal” that rescued economy from GOP laissez-faire failures.(BTW,as the liberals were saving economy from GOP failures, FDR liberals were leading the fight against RIGHTWING fascism in Italy,Germany & Japan. That’s right, Republicans in congress were cowards and did NOT want to help Great Britain against the fascists.see book “Ilustrious Dunderheads” by Rex Stout. It documents ALL GOP floor speeches in congress PROVING this GOP cowardice!
After that, read a book: WEALTH & DEMOCRACY: A Political History of the American Rich by Kevin Phillips, former Nixon aid and former Republican strategist
This book documents the GOP failures from Coolidge/Hoover on through Reagan up to the present GOP fiscal disaster!
After that read a book by MIT economist Lester Thurow– HEAD to HEAD !( about the big three economies JAPAN,GERMANY,USA)
Then Read: The Triumph of Politics: Why the Reagan Revolution Failed
by David Alan Stockman, David A. Stockman served as Director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) during former President Reagan’s first term.
Obviously you need remedial economics & history training
I guess Abe & Teddy lived in a “SOCIALIST/MARXIST/PINKO” world too eh?
What pathetic imbeciles you cons are !!!!!
The heart of the CON worldview is CHEAP LABOR! And cons have hoodwinked followers to believe that crony- CAPITALISM & DEMOCRACY are same thing. They’re NOT! Capitalism (economic system) is SUBORDINATE to Democracy of We the People (system of governance)
“We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few. But we can’t have both.” — Louis Brandeis,Supreme Court Justice
And what did two of the greatest LIBERAL Republican leaders in history have to say?
“Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration..”
Abraham Lincoln–First State of the Union Address (3 December 1861
“We wish to control big business so as to secure among other things good wages for the wage-workers and reasonable prices for the consumers. Wherever in any business the prosperity of the businessman is obtained by lowering the wages of his workmen and charging an excessive price to the consumers we wish to interfere and stop such practices. We will not submit to that kind of prosperity any more than we will submit to prosperity obtained by swindling investors or getting unfair advantages over business rivals.”
Teddy Roosevelt
Speech at Progressive Party Convention, Chicago (17 June 1912)
These two great LIBERAL republican presidents are rolling in their graves on the reactionary fascist hijacking of their once proud party.
And an apt quote below from famed economist JK Galbraith,
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
John Kenneth Galbraith, esteemed Economist,advisor to FDR and proponent of REGULATED Capitalism ( the middle way) as an economic system SUBSERVIENT to political DEMOCRACY of WE THE PEOPLE
August 8th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
This childish Raven person needs to crawl back into the psychological cesspool where the word “Freedom Fries” now resides.
Only a completely brainwashed pig like Raven would agree with anything a pig like Ney would have to say. “Freedom Fries.” Jesus, what a bunch of obsessive/compulsive masturbators….
August 9th, 2006 at 1:09 am
Oh Lance
What a pleasure to share so interesting ideas and opinion as such as those you express so kindly here 
I suppose you think terribly clever to insult someboby who openly try to defend alone his own ideas against so many detractors (and I’m one of them).
But don’t be to eager to deal out insult and jugement.
Go back to your wonderful world of strange politeness and odd courtesy and let us try to exchange ideas with our boxing gloves. We don’t need witless and coarse guy.
August 9th, 2006 at 1:18 am
“Hello,
is there anybody in there ?
Just nod if you can here me”
August 9th, 2006 at 9:23 am
Pierre, ……is there anyone at home???…..
Relax….I need some information….first—just the basic FACTS…can you tell me where it hurts ????
Ahhhhh, Pierre, FACTS hurt republicans. You saw my several posts above. Hundreds of GOP ChickenHawks who talk a good game, but basically are wussies!
Cons don’t even know BASIC history, let alone BASIC FACTS. ( see my French history and GOP chickenHawk lists above)
And now……here comes David Gilmour’s transcendent guitar solo… HIT IT DAVID !!!
August 10th, 2006 at 12:32 am
Zebob, “When I was a child, I had a fever,
My hands fellt just like two ballons,
Now I got that feeling once again.”
Oh yes I got that feeling once again. A few months ago I’ve red a book that “cut my legs” (french proverb) : OUR OLDEST ENEMY. Oh my God… After the Goebels’s speeches in WWII it was one of the best piece of propaganda I’ve ever seen.
Yet all the informations in this book are not false but the way they are linked the ones to the others is aberrant and even dangerous for it got throughout the book false ideas about France.
My first reaction was : I hope that there are some Americans who don’t share the same incredible and dangerous ideas about France
OK, we Frenchmen are not Angel. But there are limits we have not to cross.
It’s why I’ve let my posts above.
And so, to have found yours posts (and some others) based one BASIC FACTS, that prove to me that “OUR OLDEST ENEMY” is not the only book that Americans have red about France.
It allowed me not to end this post with a “goodby cruel world” but rather with the famous “God bless America”.
August 10th, 2006 at 9:29 am
Pierre, Yeah, those americans (mostly cons) have not lived or travelled abroad. Very narrow & shallow view of the world. Annnnnnnnnd, cons don’t know BASIC history 101.
Read my posts above AGAIN! Liberals and LIBERALISM is what made USA great—from Jefferson,Madison to liberal republicans like Lincoln & Teddy Roosevelt and on through the greatest liberal president Franklin Roosevelt!. As I said before, Lincoln & Teddy would be APPALLED at the rightwing,reactionary fascist hijacking of their once proud party.
August 28th, 2006 at 9:17 am
I am not sure whether this blog is about debate or about insult. Also, this thread seems to have been deserted for a while. Anyway, I had to wonder about a few points here. If we accept military record as an indicator of what a country is worth, what does that tell us about the state the U.S. has been in during the last half century? How many points has the U.S. scored since its last military victory? And if staying away from the losing side of any conflict is a virtue, should we not congratulate France for getting it right just once? But I forget that one might consider Iraq a success (I am not saying anybody “does” — I am just guessing). Oh and from a French-basher’s standpoint, what is so really terrible about being suspected of getting news from Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity? Just one more: the U.S. needs no allies, does it, then why does it deal with other countries (such as France — or NATO, for that matter) at all? Just wondering.