You’re right on the daisy cutter. I got it’s detonation properties mixed up with those of the submunitions in the BLU-73/95/96’s.

Like I said, it’s effectiveness depends on the layout of the bomb. I only have knowledge of what I’ve studied (descriptions of bombs in historical texts) and what friends have told me. No application experience, other than my cousin and I shooting at various things and trying out shooting an old propane tank –very stupid in retrospect, but stupidity is the forte of teens. You’re right, if the nails and stuff were ‘in’ the bomb itself, (like the center or even right against the propane tanks themselves) they might not go very far. If they were arranged around the outside of the bomb at a slight distance they would have their propelling force from the shockwave. The single propane tank we set off managed to throw some rocks through the aluminum siding of the abandoned barn about 75 feet away. The enclosed space of the car would have limited that –it’s effective radius reduced by the amount of material in the doors and redirection of the shock– but would be more than adequate on a soft target, like a line waiting to get into a night club or people coming out of it–if it were rigged properly.

But it’s all speculation on both our parts. If you go by what FAS says about Fuel-Air Explosive devices, it’s difficult to calculate the effectiveness of a FAE, even with computers, because there are too many pressure variables in play at every instant of the explosion for reliable modeling to be done without actual physical tests.

Daisycutter? You mean the BLU-82? Yep, thats one very effective shrapnel bomb. Its also a high-explosive shrapnel bomb. High explosive and shrapnel are a great combination if you want to deal some heavy damage over a large area. It was not a fuel-air bomb by any definition.

The problem with fuel-air and shrapnel is that the explosion is too defuse. On conventional explosions, something goes bang, and you pack shrapnel around it. Easy. On fuel-air, there is a large volume that goes bang. If your shrapnel is inside that (ie, inside the car), then it doesn’t go anywhere. If its too far away, it doesn’t go anywhere. It needs to be in the right place. Windows would make the best shrapnel a bomb like that could produce – the nails were just unneeded.

The car-bombs appear to be fuel-air, largely by accident – petrol and butane canisters? Fireball, easy, but to get a big explosion you need to make it all go up at once. The greatest danger would be flying glass when the petrol vapor inside blew up and shattered the windows. Even that would be weak – mostly, all you would get is a burning car. After a while the butane canister would rupture, then you get a big jet of flame, but again no explosion.

As bombs go, these two were just badly designed and badly built. Would they do damage? Yes, but only if they were set off in a crowd. They just wouldn’t have the range otherwise. As Ranba pointed out. Now, for that to happen, someone would have to set off the bomb from within sight so they could watch for people exiting the club (Those inside would be safe, unless it has large glass windows). That means this is not a completly usless bomb. It is just a lot less effective than the designers intended – their decision to put nails in shows they expected a larger explosion then they would have gotten.

Ranba, you said you know a bit about these bombs. Would the nails have made any difference?

The attackers, however, didn’t know this. If they had known about their bomb’s limited range, they would have had someone on lookout with a mobile-phone or radio detonator, waiting. As one of the bombs was defused, and the other actually towed away, this was clearly not the case. There was noone waiting. If there were, they would have set the bombs off when the ambulence crew, police, or tow-truck were nearby.

In summary:
- The bombs were effective only at close range as their explosive power would have been quite low.
- The presence of nails in the bombs shows that the designers expected a greater explosion than would have actually been produced, and one of a very different type.
- The limited range problem could have been solved by manual detonation.
- The attackers didn’t have plans for a manual detonation, therefore they were unaware of the limited range.

Robert: Are you refering to me? Im not a convert, I dislike all religions. I dislike some more than others, and islam ranks just between fundamentalist christianity and non-fundamentalist christianity in my scale.

I would ask him if he was the Bully in the playground or the wimp? how many times do you turn the other cheek before you say enough and take out that which is annoying? these attacks are not militarily sound, they will not achieve anything other than angered responses and in the near future a removal of ALL tolerance toward any MUSLIM…… Keep on going jihadi’s eventually the “Civilian Targets” of Islam, will wake up and take matters into their own hands.

True dat. Double true.

I don’t know the layout of the bomb, and as such this is all speculation: The natural gas canisters were to cause the initial explosion. These things are increadibly easy to set off (shoot one with a 9mm rifle, see what happens. It’s even more spectacular when it’s only about 1/2 full). This initial explosion causes the propellant for the shrapnel packets to go off, and the petrol tanks are there to set anything nearby on fire.

“Shrapnel and fuel-air bombs just are not compatable.”

Tell that to the VC we dropped daisycutters on in Vietnam.

Yep. Just stay on the defensive. Always react. Works really well. Just keep reacting until the enemy is on your doorstep. That is one philosophy, treat it less like a military matter and more like a criminal one. Let us know how that works out for you guys. :roll:

See, I agree that these people are soldiers, on their violent Jihad against the west. The only problem is that they don’t happen to work for a particular nation-state, and that would make it easier for even the blindest to see that these people are not criminals for the civilian legal system to prosecute. They are combatants.

Read this.

Here is an excerpt:

“Recruited for the operation were eight Germans who had lived in the United States.”

(snip)

“Their mission was to stage sabotage attacks on American economic targets: hydroelectric plants at Niagara Falls; the Aluminum Company of America’s plants in Illinois, Tennessee and New York; locks on the Ohio River near Louisville, Kentucky; a cryolite plant in Philadelphia; Hell Gate Bridge in New York; and Pennsylvania Station in Newark, New Jersey.

(snip)

Lawyers for the accused attempted to have the case tried in a civilian court, but were rebuffed by the Supreme Court in Ex parte Quirin. The trial was held in the Department of Justice building in Washington. All eight defendants were found guilty and sentenced to death. ”

Not much different from our terrorists today. They work for a pseudo-government of organized and freelance jihadists bent on destroying and converting the west to Islam and sharia law. They want to attack train stations and bridges. And the usual suspects also want to treat them as civilians just like they did in Roosevelt’s day. Thank the good Lord above that the supreme court wasn’t made up of the weak-knee’d liberals who seem to follow each other off the ledge of political correctness like little ignorant lemmings. Today’s jihadists should be treated as illegal combatants and saboteurs. Those people are tried and summarily executed. Not given three square a day and a bed.

“Then there are those nails – as pointed out by the commenters, shrapnel isn’t propelled far by fireballs. Shrapnel and fuel-air bombs just are not compatable.”

All shrapnel needs is a propellant. I am not a bomb expert. I do understand that if there is an explosion, air is forced away from the center of the explosion. There is probably going to be a fireball. But air will be traveling away from the explosion, probably carrying light objects, such as glass, nails or ball bearings. Might not be as effective as a car packed full of C4 or leftover warheads, but if the car is surrounding by 100+ people leaving a night club, then it will do its job nicely I suspect.

It was discovered in a blue 280E model Mercedes in a Park Lane car pound, where it had been towed after being given a ticket for illegally parking in Cockspur Street, near Trafalgar Square.”

…

Usless terrorists.