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We Have A Right To Know
Posted by Raven on October 16th, 2007
A recent poll by USA Today shows that I am not alone with my opinion that the expansion of the S-CHIP program is not good for America.
WASHINGTON — A majority of Americans trust Democrats to handle the issue of children’s health insurance more than President Bush, but they agree with the president that government aid should be targeted to low-income families, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll shows
Look at the details of this poll, that we know of:
• 52% agree with Bush that most benefits should go to children in families earning less than 200% of the federal poverty level — about $41,000 for a family of four. Only 40% say benefits should go to families earning up to $62,000, as the bill written by Democrats and some Republicans would allow.
• 55% are very or somewhat concerned that the program would create an incentive for families to drop private insurance. Bush and Republican opponents have called that a step toward government-run health care.
Taken together, the results show that while Bush may be losing the political battle with Democrats, he may be doing better on policy.
Mike Leavitt, Bush’s secretary of Health and Human Services, said the policy is most important. “There’s a lot of politics going on right now. But the politics will last a matter of weeks,” Leavitt said Monday. “The policy here will go on for decades. We have to get this right.”
Rick Moran explains some of the thinking that I share, in better words than I:
The left doesn’t want to discuss what we lose when government steps in where the citizen is capable of taking care of themselves. They refuse to acknowledge that every step toward establishing a government giving the people what they want rather than what is needed or desirable is a step back from human liberty and into the trough of virtual slavery.
You can hardly blame liberals in the end. It is extremely seductive (not to mention conducive to winning elections) to promise people that government will relieve the citizen of their burdens and make their lives easier. It is also convenient to then tar your opponents as unfeeling, uncaring monsters. Playing Santa Claus while painting the opposition as Scrooge has been part and parcel of the Democratic electoral game plan since the 1960’s.
Exactly. While I am called a monster for asking my fellow Americans to take care of themselves first, or at least attempt to do so, others on the left are telling Americans that it’s not their personal responsibility to do this. We have two forces colliding on this S CHIP tug of war game. In spite of the politics though, it does seem that Americans see this as a step in the socialism direction. Many are claiming that the middle class people can no longer afford to insure their kids. I think this is ridiculous. Of course they can afford it; they choose not to. Instead they live above their means; they buy their boats and $400,000 houses instead of buying the insurance. There is no other way to put it.
The Right has been accused of going on a witch hunt when they looked into the finances of the family the Left chose as it’s poster “child” family. In reality this is about educating Americans as to who exactly will receive benefits of the S CHIP program. We have a right to know.
Amy Ridenour explains her opinion after Paul Krugman attacked her:
Subject: The SCHIP/Graeme Frost affair and whether adults on public assistance have a right to withhold financial information about themselves from taxpayers.
Krugman believes a column I had published on TownHall last Thursday is evidence that “conservatives want those in need to be dependent on the charity of people who will seek to dictate their behavior.”
He couldn’t be more wrong. Conservatives actually want those in need to not be in need. It’s a little odd that after decades of liberals accusing conservatives of not being willing to fund welfare because we’re cheap skinflints, Krugman is accusing us of wanting to fund it so we can use it to tell people on public assistance what to do.
So we have those on the left who are swiping us for daring to ask exactly WHO will be covered by this HUGE expansion of welfare programming. The fact is this bill that was vetoed by the President would have included a far wider group of people than it’s original target. This bill would have allowed middle class families to rely on welfare in order to maintain their standard of living.
This is not good for America. The “witch hunts” MUST happen; the facts MUST be shown. In order to truly debate these things, we have to ask the hard questions and investigate the tough answers we will find. And think about this last statement from Rick Moran on this subject:
Lost in all of this has been the belief that freedom is preferable to dependency and that walking away from a society based on self-reliant, rational men and women by infantilizing their lives threatens to change the United States into a far different place than that which was bequeathed to us by our fathers and their fathers before them going back to the beginning.
Our founding fathers wouldn’t recognize America at all. I don’t recognize my county anymore. What a shame this has all become.
***UPDATE***
Big Dog has a post up about this- and he makes the statement that I did not, here, but should have; call me cold and tell me I have no compassion but health care is NOT A RIGHT.
Health care is not a right. I know it is hard for the left to wrap its arms around that but it is a truth. Everyone in America has access to health care (why do you think ILLEGALS can get it) but there is no right that it will be provided free of charge. There are programs to help the truly destitute ans S-CHIP has been one to help poor kids but in its new form it helps people who should be able to afford their own health care. Cell phones, computers, cable TV, expensive cars, and fancy clothes are luxuries. I see children in poor neighborhoods wearing expensive sneakers and clothing that, had the parents bought bargain items, might have paid for health care. Living life is about choices and one of those choices is what you will spend you money on. If a parent spends disposable income for the luxuries then they are taking a decision to neglect buying health insurance. The old adage goes, you must pay yourself first. This is the key to saving and it is the key to health care insurance. After this, then what is left may go to the luxuries. The problem is, people have the priorities wrong. That and they believe that it is a God given right for them to have insurance at the expense of others. As an aside, libs will take away your right to own/carry firearms but demand we provide health care. Only one of those is a right under our Constitution.
Yes. Well said Big Dog and I want to add that many people DO NOT fully understand the current S CHIP as it is. Each state gets federal money to fund insurance for children, whose parents are working, who make just “enough” to render them ineligible for Medicaid; S CHIP is for working families who are very likely living in apartments and driving around in old beat up cars; who cannot afford to go out to eat or the other things. The program isn’t free either. Parents are expected and do pay a premium for this insurance- which in my state, is managed by an insurance company. Health care is not a right, nor is the insurance to cover it’s costs. I have no problem with people who pay into the system- even it it’s just a small amount. I do have huge problems with people who expect this program to expand, while they loot the system.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:47 am
Let’s start with you. What is your income, how many kids do you have and do you have them fully insured? Does your employer supply insurance? What would you do if your employer decided tomorrow that it was an unnecessary benefit and cut that? Would your kids still be fully insured?
By the way, if the cop out answer is “no kids”, then you are certainly welcome to your opinion but have no right to call for a jihad on tax paying middle class americans who take care of their kids through the CHIP program.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:53 am
So you believe that 25% of every dollar dedicated to healthcare in this country goes to 1 of 3 things…corporate profit, denying claims, paperwork duplication.
Govt run programs take out the profit which means more money to patients, they have less paperwork, and they don’t profit financially by denying healthcare.
Feel free to defend your corporate paymasters…we understand you have bills and no compassion or humanity!
October 16th, 2007 at 9:54 am
You know, just this morning I was wondering “What is the opinion of white trash smack fiends on the S-CHIP program?” Now I know! Thanks so much, junkie!
October 16th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Jeff my kids are college aged now- and I am divorced. My X covers his daughters through his employer plan- which costs him just over 100.00/week. If I were to pick up the insurance through my work it run me about the same. You see, to me providing insurance for my kids is MY responsibility and not the governments. I would do it. And cut back somewhere else.
When my kids were young, we lived frugally. We bought our house when we were young- I was 22. We were able to buy that house because we chose to live within our means- we drove old cars and took care of them; we shopped for the best bargains with food and clothing; we worked two full time jobs- my X and I.
(We each held a full time job) We worked separate shifts to avoid the day care bills. Our combined income was under 60,000/yr when we paid off the house, which we did on the 10th yr of the mortgage.
By the time we were in our early 30’s that happened… We saved our money; we never took out loans for unneeded things; when we wanted something- we worked extra for it.
I fully realize times have changed. If my X’s employer had cut the insurance he would have found another job that offered it. I would have picked up the plans at my work. No question about it. IF I were to have really needed help I would have made darn sure I was living within my income barriers and means. And I would have worked two jobs and the second would be to provide insurance. Thats how I am. Self reliant.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:26 am
And I absolutely do have a right to question, not jihad, the middle class Americans who are using my money, paid as taxes, to cover their lifestyle. I want to know where my money is going and I would hope you would as well. Having blind faith in the government’s ability to provide “services” for people in need is just foolhardy. Look at how the government wastes money.
Remember the 400.00 toilet seat covers the Pentagon used to purchase? We were all outraged at that.
Think of it like this: We’re paying for the health insurance of kids in families who are more than likely taking out loans to design their bathrooms to be luxurious and yes, probably paying for a toilet seat cover! <– an example not a provable fact.
I’m not at all against S CHIP funds going for the truly needy and we have plenty who DO need help. MY family qualified for some welfare programs back when the kids were really young. But I refused to ever consider it. Because I had some pride in what I was able to provide on my own; I worked for what we had and worked hard. We made sacrifices. It seems to me that not too many are willing to do this now a days.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:53 am
It’s great that you were able to find jobs that offered you health insurance. Back in the day, most jobs did.
It’s not like that any more. Times have changed, and pensions and other benefits have been jettisoned by many employers. Fewer and fewer employers provide their workers with medical insurance, especially in lower-paying jobs.
The middle class is still pretty much OK, as long as they don’t get really sick and run out their benefits or lose their jobs. And as long as their insurer doesn’t decide to deny them needed care…..but that’s another thread.
The lower/working class is pretty much screwed. No insurance through work, and try to buy it–$1200 dollars a month for a family of four is about average. (Yes, you can find cheaper policies, but they generally don’t cover much.) Could you afford that on minimum wage or just above, even with two family members working?
SCHIP is not meant for the destitute. The really poor have Medicaid. It is meant to help working families who can’t afford it to get medical insurance FOR THEIR KIDS. Why? Because some of us care about kids and families, and really do think that children are our future.
Healthy children for a healthy future. Yes? Or should health be a prerogative of the rich only?
I remember watching old movies and reading books where someone would get sick and die because they couldn’t afford a needed operation. I always thought that this was a thing of the past. Wrong. The right apparently wants to resurrect Tiny Tim so they can let him suffer and die all over again. At least Scrooge had the decency to see the error of his misanthropic ways.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:53 am
If socialized medicine is good enough for our elected leaders, good enough for all governmental employees, good enough for our vets, well I think it should be good enough for ALL Americans.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:25 am
you show your ignorance of how the insurance scam in this country works. most working people who are not covered by their employer cannot afford health insurance. period. and many cannot get coverage for certain types of diseases/illnesses. further, a private insurance company can tell you what treatments you are allowed to receive rather than let you choose for yourself what you and your doctor think is best. finally, we cannot forget the all-important pre-existing condition by which they eliminate coverage.
before you start demonizing people, why mot become a little more educated about health insurance and it’s inaffordability.
by the way, i am a well-educated, employed person who is currently doing temp work so i don’t have insurance. i make a decent amount of money but most of it goes to expenses (shelter, food, transportation, utilities, loans, etc). so, despite making roughly $80K a year, month to month i cannot afford private heath insurance because the premiums are too high. should i live in a tenement rather than my $1750/month apartment? should i eat ramen noodles rather than buy meat? exactly where do you think i should cut a corner to afford health insurance?
i don’t disagree that the government shouldn’t be doing this. but the solution is not to demonize the people that want this. it’s to demonize the insurance industry that makes this necessary. or are you one of those that whatever big business does is right because after all they’re in the business to make money?
October 16th, 2007 at 11:27 am
“Of course they can afford it; they choose not to. Instead they live above their means; they buy their boats and $400,000 houses instead of buying the insurance. There is no other way to put it.”
Who is the “they” here? I would agree that such a person could probably afford insurance, but the picture you paint doesn’t describe one single person that I know. Most of us “waste” our money on things like food and rent and don’t have much left over. And where do you live that one can simply leave one job and get another at a moment’s notice?
By the way, what are your feelings about insurers who routinely deny claims because they’re worried about their profits? Bear in mind that as an individual purchaser of insurance (as opposed to a group), one has virtually no leverage and is basically at the mercy of the insurer.
Bonus question: How easy to get/affordable do you think insurance is for persons with medical histories?
October 16th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
I think most folk here are missing the boat. The question should be is health coverage an entitlement/right or does there need to be some adjustments to the system? I am a health care professional and I choose NOT to take insurance for primarily two reasons, the inordinate amount of paperwork involved and it raises my costs. I can provide my time at work providing services to my patients or I can cut those services so that I can do the paperwork or hire staff. In either of the last two situations, my cost per hour of service will have to go up.
One of the commenters mentioned “back in the day” when supposedly health insurance was the norm. Well, actually back in the day it was not the norm and people generally got fairly good health care, docs made home visits, you made wise health choices etc. Today we live in a fast food rapid response lifestyle and think that health care insurance or health care is a right. Well, guess what, it isn’t. As a society we have, as part of our social contract, to provide for those who are totally incapable of providing for themselves, but buying a 400K house rather than health coverage is just plain stupid. Would not a 300K house have done just as well?
SChips was designed to assist those who had kids and were too poor to obtain their own, but not poor enough for medicaid. That should not, despite anyone’s argument include adults up to the age of 25 or people who make 80K a year. Now, if they make 80K a year and have 15 kids, maybe, but not otherwise.
Government services are not paid for by the government, they are paid for the citizens via taxation. Either a direct tax on current citizens or an indirect tax on future citizens. If you don’t believe that, please take a look at the unfunded entitlements the US Government is currently obliged to pay. If you think health care is expensive now, wait till it is government controled.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Raven,
I am not real sure if this SCHIP thing would have been good or bad, but I do know that if you suggest that people take care of their own responsibilities, the Libbers will get upset…. You see liberals must have everything handed to them by those that make good decisions in life.
I am in the middle class, I have 2 kids, I do not have a college degree, I work very hard to provide for my family and I do not ask nor want the governments help when it comes to my finances or health care… I’ll handle it.
I also think that all the liberal whiners that are upset about this particular issue should try to see why health care costs are so damn high, look at the ILLEGAL Immigration issue, the doctors, nurses and staff can not turn away these patients, therefore the cost is shared by those of us that are here legally and pay the price for health care.
Eliminate the illegals and watch crime, health care, traffic problems decrease in cost…..Liberal’s want to blame America for EVERYTHING, they love to blame but can not bring themselves to look inward…
The Left is the best allies our enemies in this world have, they have given hope to our opponents in the WOT, and they have caused America’s core values to be all but forgotten.
Liberal judges, the liberal media and our uber liberal professors have corrupted our youth and removed the pride of accomplishment and joy of success from our kids… The “Everyone wins” mentality is NOT helping….
I can’t stand liberal’s almost as much as Islamic radicals, although; they are on the same team…
October 16th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I just don’t understand the leftist/socialist/communist position on this one. Those of you who support SCHIP support government pointing a gun at people who work and taking their money. GOVERNMENT PRODUCES NOTHING. The only way government can spend ANY money is to take it from someone who earns it. If I point a gun at someone and take their money to give to Moveon.Org, I’m a thief. But if government points a gun at me and takes my money and gives it to “the poor,” that’s somehow fair. No, it’s inherently evil, not compassionate.
I don’t care who you are, I don’t care what your income is, I don’t care how many children you have: you do NOT have a right to my earnings. If you think you do, you are evil and heartless.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
I understand your broader point — Americans are living beyond their means. What does all that home equity mean if not to use as the basis for loans (for such necessities as brand new snowmobiles, the trailer to tow them, and the Hummer to tow the trailer towing the snowmobiles; of course, one also needs the waverunners for the summer, and the trailer to tow them)?
However, unless I’m mistaken, it seems you are characterizing such bad decision-makers as the ones clamoring for government assistance, i.e., the “left.” But these morons constitute the great majority of Americans, plenty of whom vote Republican and think of themselves as “self-sufficient.”
But irresponsibility with budgets is not the reason for the insurance crunch. Insurance industry profiteering is. As others have pointed out, your knowledge of current insurance costs needs brushing up. For me, a single, healthy guy with no preexisting conditions, five years ago it would have cost me $400 per month for catastrophic insurance (with about a $5000 deductible). I was 33 at the time. I would expect that number to be double now. That adds up to $4800 per year for insurance that covers nothing. If I get sick, or need hospital stay, it climbs to $9800 and up. At the time I was making approximately $30,000 per year, and living at parents’ to keep costs down. This makes no sense and doesn’t accurately reflect true medical costs.
You should also consider the reason so many employers, especially small businesses, are dropping insurance coverage for their employees. They typically pay an equal amount to what the employee pays. These are also generally group plans, which means should one employee register high claims in a given year, the cost to ALL employees goes up.
This is not an issue limited to small business, either. GM, for example, has been making noises about supporting single-payer healthcare in order to get out from under crippling healthcare obligations.
One further note: in my area of Connecticut (which I’d leave in a heartbeat if I could find a decent paying job in another market), $400,000 buys a very modest home.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
A right to know. Well, The Conservatives has showed in the past not to care about anyone but big insurance companies. So my question to you is this have you ever try to buying individual health insurance. If not then maybe you don’t have the right to question others about their views on S-CHIP. Until you do check into buying you own insurance. I would suggest that you be quiet till you do check
October 16th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Robert, I hope your filthy, white trash children get stomach cancer. Let’s see how quick you’ll be to dismiss “government handouts” when you need them to keep your kids alive. And if you do, you’re evn more of a dimwitted animal than I give you credit for being.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Do you expect children to be responsible for their own health care ?
As a health professional do you think it is good public health practice to have ANY (including illegal aliens) children unvacinated or untreated ?
October 16th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Having insurance is not enough. Working hard is not enough. Even if you have a good job with benefits, it’s no guarantee they won’t fire you if you dare get sick:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/12/AR2007101202551.html?hpid=sec-health
Get sick, lose your insurance. This is America today.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
Don’t blame only insurance companies for high costs — blame government. No, I’m not kidding.
You see, it used to be that insurance companies could sell whatever insurance people wanted to buy. That’s no longer the case. For example, the catostrophic insurance mentioned above — I am not allow BY LAW to buy this type of insurance in NC. Instead, I’m forced to buy tons of coverage that I DO NOT WANT. Why? Because those who live risky lifestyles are using government to force me to pay for their choices. Again, it’s wrong.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
yd writes:
by the way, i am a well-educated, employed person who is currently doing temp work so i don’t have insurance. i make a decent amount of money but most of it goes to expenses (shelter, food, transportation, utilities, loans, etc). so, despite making roughly $80K a year, month to month i cannot afford private heath insurance because the premiums are too high. should i live in a tenement rather than my $1750/month apartment? should i eat ramen noodles rather than buy meat? exactly where do you think i should cut a corner to afford health insurance?
Well to start with yd, if you were to ask me I would ask YOU: What kind of vehicle do you drive? Could you get a cheaper one? Where do you live? Could you find a place that costs you less? I would ask you that and not feel the least bit guilty because those are things we CAN make cuts on. Now if you told me you were driving a clunker, and lived in a one room apartment AND could show me it was the least expensive dwelling of decent sort that you could find…I might have a little empathy for you. But I still wouldn’t allow this to be enough for as a reason to enroll in some guvmint program. Nope.
My next question would be a little deeper: Why are you working at a temp job? With the education you have, I would assume, wrongly perhaps, that you should be employable by at least a few companies. I would also assume that you have an excellent employment record, with impeccable references that speak to your excellent work ethics. Again this would increase your chances of getting gainfully employed.
Lastly I would suggest you get a job at Wal Mart- where for $11.00 a week you would have health insurance. I WOULD DO THAT. I would take a job flipping burgers at Wendy’s where they offer insurance BEFORE I would ask the government for help.
That’s the difference between us. I would FIND A WAY to remain self reliant. The rest of you lefties will not because you don’t believe you should have to.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
seamus,
That is real nice. You hope his kids get cancer. What kind of low life scum sucking maggot would say such a thing. You are one of the pukes who has bought into this whole SCHIP thing because it is for the kids and then you wish something like this on children, children who are not part of this discussion? What a piece of moldy shit you are. Did you spouse give you some STD that fried your brain or did you play fast and loose with your mother’s crack cocaine? I think you must be the lowest piece of shit on earth. I am not going to wish death on anyone in your family and I will not wish death on you. I only wish that when it is your time to die it is a long, slow and extremely painful process that tortures you for years. Dirty bastard.
John Ryan, the answer to that question is to keep the ILLEGALS out and then we will not have to care for them.
There are many reasons for expensive health care and profiteering is not high on the list. Businesses exist to make money. Frivolous lawsuits and government control are big in hiking the price. One adds cost and the other suppresses competition.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
“Remember the 400.00 toilet seat covers the Pentagon used to purchase? We were all outraged at that.
That example “government waste” (along with the $2043.00 bolt, $435.00 claw hammer, $7,600 coffee pots..)you cite was fraud perpetrated in the private sector from defense contractors (i.e. Lockeeed, Boeing, General Dynamics) who were able bilk billions of taxpayer dollars due to a lack of oversight. However, back in those days Teh Great Communicator was railing against welfare mothers who drove gold Cadillacs.
It seems that not much as changed in the mindset of mouthbreathers. 72 Million dollars gets blown on a non-functioning Police college in Baghdad but “The “witch hunts” MUST happen” for families who can’t afford medical coverage.
Clearly irony has died and had salt poured all over its grave.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
John Ryan says
If socialized medicine is good enough for our elected leaders, good enough for all governmental employees, good enough for our vets, well I think it should be good enough for ALL Americans.
Yeah and if we go by what the vets get for care, we see numerous problems with how it’s all managed and funded. Strict rules as to WHO one can see for care, WHERE one can go…but this isn’t about that John.
This is about taking a very important and necessary program, S CHIP- and turning IT into something much more.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Jeez, after taking a job at Wal-Mart, take away $11 per week, that leaves you….NOTHING. (Just kidding).
You don’t just take a job and suddenly have insurance. Does Wal-Mart and/or Wendy’s not require minimum hours per week before being eligible for insurance, plus several months’ employment?
Further, what KIND of health insurance is this? Is it a quality program?
Lastly, are you suggesting that someone with the career credentials to pull down $80,000 per year should LEAVE such a job in order to work at Wal-Mart or Wendy’s (because a part-timer isn’t going to get health coverage at most employers, though I don’t know about Wal-Mart’s or Wendy’s policy)? Good idea. That will look grand on the resume. Or maybe you mean he should take a part-time gig, and work 80-90 hours a week (like he isn’t already perhaps), just to pay for insurance? Also a great idea.
Not that I don’t see your point. At 80K, I think I could find a way to find insurance. I think I WOULD find a way. In New York City, of course, 80K is the equivalent of $30K somewhere else, accounting for cost of living. But I bet I would still find a way.
The ultimate problem still lies in the increasingly prohibitive cost of insurance. Self-reliant you may be, but I really think you’re missing the overall picture here.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
John Ryan says
Do you expect children to be responsible for their own health care ?
As a health professional do you think it is good public health practice to have ANY (including illegal aliens) children unvacinated or untreated ?
Nope. I don’t. But I do think parents should be charged with NEGLECT, when they CAN afford insurance, but CHOOSE not to AND then blame the high costs…as they drive around in the newer SUV or go out snowmobiling- or all the other perks they feel so entitled to.
As for illegals- if we stopped allowing them in, we wouldn’t have this problem now would we???
October 16th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
Seamus, Big Dog wasn’t hard enough on you. To wish something like stomach cancer on a CHILD.. How vile. As a lung cancer survivor, I can tell you that for a 59 year old the surgery, chemo therapy and waiting for a prognosis was tough enough, I cannot imagine how rough it would be on a child and his family.
You really are disgusting, and I’m sure that your mother would not be proud to hear you talk like that. It must be the anonimity of the internet that helps shield you from scorn from even the worst of the lefties for I cannot even come close to imagining someone like Huffington, Cooper, Rhodes or any other lefty agreeing with you in the least.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
seamus says
Robert, I hope your filthy, white trash children get stomach cancer. Let’s see how quick you’ll be to dismiss “government handouts” when you need them to keep your kids alive. And if you do, you’re evn more of a dimwitted animal than I give you credit for being.
Now that was out of line here in the context of this good debate we are having. I appreciate the other comments as being honest and open thought, give and take. SEAMUS, you are a voice of the breed of leftard that I so often refer to here: That vile, mean spirited and out and out nasty person…you have no place here and your future comments will be deleted.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
seamus,
How are your wife and my kids doing anyway? I think you are a scum sucking maggot who has little regard for anything except your self absorbed stupidity.
Your mommy teach you to act like that or was she busy with the kitchen meth lab? I know, hard childhood, right. And if you knew who your father was you could blame it all on him.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
JML asks:
Bonus question: How easy to get/affordable do you think insurance is for persons with medical histories?
It’s not easy. Even with employer provided plans we sometimes are asked…I have a medical condition that I have no control over. It generally doesn’t pop up as a problem. But the time will come where it might. I am a risk to insure. If I end up having to purchase my own plan I will have to pay more. Thems the breaks. Why should anyone else have to pay across the board, for my medical risks? Why should I have to pay for your risk?
Again this isn’t about the S CHIP stuff.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
David asks:
Lastly, are you suggesting that someone with the career credentials to pull down $80,000 per year should LEAVE such a job in order to work at Wal-Mart or Wendy’s (because a part-timer isn’t going to get health coverage at most employers, though I don’t know about Wal-Mart’s or Wendy’s policy)? Good idea. That will look grand on the resume. Or maybe you mean he should take a part-time gig, and work 80-90 hours a week (like he isn’t already perhaps), just to pay for insurance? Also a great idea.
Yes I am suggesting a Wal Mart type job. Or a factory job. Or a kitchen worker. WHATEVER it takes.
I would do that. I’m not ABOVE this type of work and frankly most people who call themselves well educated believe they are ABOVE such work. And they use it as an excuse to stay unemployed or, on the unemployment rolls for yrs on end. THAT’s another post though.
I would change my lifestyle. My kids come first- and I would do anything to provide for them. If it means selling the damn house and fancy cars, so be it. If it means I have to work 2 jobs, so be it. I would do that before taking help from the government.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Big Dog says
seamus,
That is real nice. You hope his kids get cancer. What kind of low life scum sucking maggot would say such a thing?
Republican water carriers like Limbuagh, coulter, o’reilly, hannity say things like this all the time. Where is you outrage towards that? The last gasp 26%r’s are tearing this once proud country apart. Tell me: Would Jesus provide coverage for the kids? Yes he would.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Raven,
Thanks for your reply to my question and thanks for keeping it civil.
“Why should anyone else have to pay across the board, for my medical risks?”
It seems to me that we kind of do this already in a few other arenas. My taxes support a network of roads and even though I don’t drive on all of them, the existence of such critical infrastructure benefits everyone. My taxes pay for a police department and a justice system and even though I don’t need to call the police every day, I benefit from the work that they do for the greater community. My tax dollars support a war in Iraq that, theoretically, is protecting me from terrorism even though I have never been a victim of terrorism. We pay for these things collectively so that we can go about our business, whatever that might be, without having to worry about these things. (I suppose the extreme anti-tax folks are against all of this.)
To employ the model implied in the quote above, roads would probably only exist in centers of wealth/business. We might not have police as we know them, but “security” (aka thugs) only for those who can afford it. Should we leave the costs of the fight against terrorism up to the citizens of New York and DC? After all, they were the ones who suffered “the breaks,” as you put it.
I see health care as a part of the larger infrastructure picture and an investment(!) of sorts in the community/country. To that end, I would have no problem at all helping to pay into a system that absorbs your risks. Don’t misinterpret that as pity, but if you have more to offer this world than being a Wal-Mart greeter, then I would rather promote conditions that allow you to share what you have to offer. We would all benefit.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
So:
- pooling funds to distribute risk and cover medical expenses for those who end up needing them, is fine if it’s done via an insurance company – which increases costs, and denies insurance to people who already need, and even steps in and denies care if *they* decide they don’t want to pay it.
BUT
pooling funds to distribute risk and pay medical expenses for those who need them is NOT fine if it’s done by a government agency that takes NO profit, does NOT deny care based on need, and does NOT interfere with doctors.
Explain, please?
October 16th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
“I’m not ABOVE this type of work and frankly most people who call themselves well educated believe they are ABOVE such work.”
I think that’s a mischaracterization of the dilemma many people face. If you’ve paid a pile of money for an education in hopes that you’ll be able to earn a good living (and thus provide for your eventual family to the best of your ability), then working at Wal-Mart makes little sense. Reason? It takes you out of your trained profession. Once out, it’s difficult to break back in.
If you’re unemployed, different story. But I guarantee you there are just as many “republicans” as “democrats” on the dole in such circumstances. I dislike them either way.
Just as come retirement time, it’ll be equal parts blue and red drawing from the Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid till.
But ultimately, in the healthcare debate, there needs to be some consideration of the “neighborhood effect,” to crib from Milton Freidman. That is, that which sustains one sustains all. If your neighbor is tossed into bankruptcy due to collossal health care bills (the reason for approximately 75% of bankruptcy filings today*) then it’s obvious that this affects us all.
Insurance costs are killing businesses and individuals. It’s simply not working as it is. S-CHIP is but one tiny fraction of the whole problem.
That said, I’d welcome a candidate for public office who stood up and demanded Americans spend less. But no one in politics is willing to, let’s say, put all those workers assembling snowmobiles on the street. The majority of our economic growth has depended on this uninterrupted consumption of truly unnecessary crap.
And if we stop buying illuminated 6-foot plastic Santa Claus statues, entire villages in China would be unemployed.
* I don’t know if that percentage is right, but I recall reading it someplace. I’ll try to look it up.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:29 am
I live in a small-mid town, 45,000. Every gas station here has at least one poster or donation can for someone who needs help paying medical bills or to get treated. Ovarian cancer, breast cancer, leukemia, work injuries. I think it’s a sin that people have to beg for medical help.
And it’s just good economic sense for the U.S. to switch to some form of universal health care. Every other first-world country has this, only our businesses and industries have to provide it to their employees, and it raises their costs. If they didn’t have to worry about health care a lot of capital would be freed for hiring, research, expansion, etc. They could compete on a more level playing field.
And denying the uninsured treatment is DANGEROUS. Staph, tuberculosis, influenza, without decent, timely treatment one person can infect dozens, hundreds of others. And if we get real unlucky we could have a full blown epidemic on our hands. The Spanish Influenza epidemic of 1918 killed more than 25 million people worldwide, and started right here in the USA.
It’s not just a moral issue. Health care for everyone makes sense economically and from public health stand. All those congress people and senators who vote against it, they all have coverage for the rest of their lives. Why should they care about US?
October 18th, 2007 at 5:55 am
John Ryan and his Socialviks want free health care for ALL Americans, and probably for the 12-25 million law breaking illegals too. Every day is Halloween and Christmas in the Ryan’s Hope Socialviks world! The VA is for SERVICE-CONNECTED injuries and illnesses Comrade Ryanskov…That’s right, I forgot you have a US Passport and a DOD Passport too… RYAN & CCCP have four letters each! FREEDOM ISN’T FREE Ryan so move to Canada.